And here is the crux of this whole argument. You are far more likely to be able to do the clever stuff without programming in Excel than in ANY other programme. I once wrote a system to generate role play case studies for training financial advisers. It crunched about 250 fields for each record, did a lot of sums, then merged everything into a big Word document. The only code it needed was around 20 lines to automate the merge with Word. It was written, tested and working perfectly in a day. The client wanted an Access interface for the system. That one took over a week, and has code coming out of its ears (which I'm still debugging!) By contrast, I just made another big system which allows training administrators to juggle training course nominations and bookings. It records people who need to go on courses, what courses you are running, when and where they are booked, etc. It prints waiting lists, course delegate lists, and my favourite part is the calendar, which in glorious colour shows your company's training programme on a wall calendar for any 13-week period you choose, just like one of those Sasco wall charts. How much code? TWO LINES. That makes it easier to create, easier to debug, easier to maintain, easier to document. As a coder, you pass through several stage of development: Ignorance - "Why would I need to code" Wonder - "Wow, look what some guy did with code" Resolve - "I'm going to be able to code like that soon" Setback - "I'm never going to get the hang of coding" Triumph - "Yes, I did it - my code worked" Hubris - "I can do anything now - I am a code master" Maturity - "I choose not to code if it can be avoided" Ray Blake _____________ This email is from Ray Blake, Head of Software Design, GR Business Process Solutions. It is confidential and intended for the addressee only. The contents are private and may be legally privileged. If you receive this email in error we would be grateful if you would advise the sender and delete the email from your system. For more information on the services that we offer please visit us at our website: - www.grbps.com -----Original Message----- From: mso-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mso-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Greg Chapman Sent: 13 September 2003 02:09 To: mso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [mso] Re: OT: Dian please AND OTHERS <chuckle> I used to say the same thing until I got ticked off one time too many about my limited options without it. Where possible, I prefer to not program but when it's obvious I'll have to in order to produce what I want, well, break out the twinkies. ;> Greg Chapman http://www.mousetrax.com "Counting in binary is as easy as 01, 10, 11! With thinking this clear, is coding really a good idea?" ************************************************************* You are receiving this mail because you subscribed to mso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or MicrosoftOffice@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To send mail to the group, simply address it to mso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To Unsubscribe from this group, send an email to mso-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the subject line. Or, visit the group's homepage and use the dropdown menu. This will also allow you to change your email settings to digest or vacation (no mail). //www.freelists.org/webpage/mso To be able to use the files section for sharing files with the group, send a request to mso-moderators@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and you will be sent an invitation with instructions. Once you are a member of the files group, you can go here to upload/download files: http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/msofiles *************************************************************