[modeleng] Re: voltage controll

>"You will have guessed, that these key-components are the ones that are
>fried...so I cann't even determine wether they are traics or thyristors...."

Would it be worth buying one more new AVR and dissecting it to get a
handle on the "key components"?  Just a thought...

Bede
Brooklyn

On 3/27/2007, "Patrick Coppens- Marian Lynch" <sb286643@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>Rich,
>yes, I have done this as far as it was possible, but most of the=20
>components are not numbered, and the resostors not colorcoded (chinese=20
>electronics). this helped, but I cann't find some of the key components=20
>in any data base (and I have a big collection of them).
>You will have guessed, that these key-components are the ones that are=20
>fried...so I cann't even determine wether they are traics or thyristors....
>I have the print layout and the general principle of the circuit, but I=20
>am reluctant to use a design of my one, based on this partial info,=20
>since I do not want to burn out the field coils of the gen head.
>That is why a circuit diagram would confirm my findings and put my mind=20
>at ease. Or prevent me from doing more damage; whatever the case may be....
>Patrick
>
>R.L. Roebuck wrote:
>
>>Any chance of using the ruined/dismantled AVR to get a fix on where the=20
>>main power components are.
>>
>>Take one of the previously blown AVR's and bore down through those  bits=20
>>of the resin, so that you can bring the connections out, and then hook up=
=20
>>some respecified power components, mounted on heatsinks?
>>
>>Yours,
>>
>>
>>Rich.
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 27 Mar 2007, Patrick Coppens- Marian Lynch wrote:
>>
>> =20
>>
>>>Thank you for this,
>>>To answer one question
>>>"especially if we are talking high voltage and power components (unless
>>>this is your speciality)."
>>>
>>>yes it is...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>It is a matter of design, as these things have to dissipate way too much
>>>heat, and are made of components that are what we call "borderline
>>>spec". The dimensioning of the semiconductors leaves almost nothing as a
>>>margin.
>>>On top of this flaw (done for 'the cheap') the embedding in 'the gunk'
>>>mentioned makes sure that the heat cann't go anywhere. So
>>>transistors/triacs or thyristors call it a day....for good.
>>>Imagine the cooler of your CPU in the very computer you use to,so
>>>kindly,share your ideas with me is packed in silicone! It wouldn't last
>>>long enough to read the answer to this message...
>>>The cooling fins of the thyristors are on top of being packed in resin,
>>>so small, that they are, in short; useless. this is done to make the
>>>unit fit inside the generator head. This is ,next to the diesel, the
>>>hottest part of the genset.
>>>The people who make these sets, have by admission of one of there own
>>>technicians, changed the place were they mount this unit.(outside the
>>>gen head)
>>>Not because they want to keep it cooler, but because it takes too much
>>>time to dismantel the units (they seem to have to do a lot of that...)
>>>The system of self exiting generator heads is a good one ,in concept, it
>>>cals for little repairs.
>>>So the manufacturers have to generate some trade in spare parts. This is
>>>one way of doing it.
>>>
>>>
>>>Many thanks
>>>Regards
>>>Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>R.L. Roebuck wrote:
>>>
>>>   =20
>>>
>>>>Hi there Partick,
>>>>
>>>>If I was tackling this myself, then I would possibly be thinking along
>>>>the following lines. I may be wrong, but this is what my thoughts are....
>>>>
>>>>Is this a common problem for other people using these
>>>>generator sets - if so you'd think that there'd be other peoples comments
>>>>about it online for the make you have.
>>>>
>>>>If not, is it worth making sure you don't think it's something you're
>>>>doing that's blowing it - 3 times is usually my limit for smoking bits
>>>>before I sit down and have a few cups of tea, and run it past a colleague=
.
>>>>
>>>>If you're happy it's a problem with this make of AVR then is there any
>>>>sense in buying an AVR for a different make of generator set, one with a
>>>>better reputation?
>>>>
>>>>If not, then you're implying that all such AVR's have this kind of
>>>>problem, and so no matter how much skill you have in the field, it will
>>>>count for nothing, as you're looking at a reaearch and development
>>>>problem, and you will doubtless spend more money on blown components in
>>>>testing and trying that it will cost you to buy a handful of new AVR's -
>>>>especially if we are talking high voltage and power components (unless
>>>>this is your speciality).
>>>>
>>>>You will also end up spending valuable workshop time doing what you do al=
l
>>>>day at work.
>>>>
>>>>...it may be more of a reality check than what you were looking for - but
>>>>I thought I'd put 'pen to paper' just incase the thoughts were of any use=
.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yours,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Rich.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     =20
>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Patrick Coppens- Marian Lynch" <sb286643@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 4:21 PM
>>>>>Subject: [modeleng] voltage controll
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       =20
>>>>>
>>>>>>Evnin' All
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I my Workshop, I have a 3 phase (6,5KVA) diesel genset.
>>>>>>This provides the current for my (big ) lathe and a number of other 3
>>>>>>phase motors.
>>>>>>For the 3rd time the AVR (automatic voltage controller) has clapped out=
.
>>>>>>At 100 euro's a pop, yours truly is fed up.
>>>>>>I am an electronics engineer, so I can design/ make a more robust one
>>>>>>myself, but it would help to have a circuit diagram of one.
>>>>>>The commercial ones are embedded in a sort of gunk ,to protect them fro=
m
>>>>>>moisture and prying eyes like mine...
>>>>>>So it is impossible to get that stuff of, without totaly mangeling to
>>>>>>circuitboard.
>>>>>>I did that anway, only to find out, that most of the components have no
>>>>>>serial/type numbers
>>>>>>Even the resistors are not colorcoded!
>>>>>>Any body any ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Patrick
>>>>>>Flanders
>>>>>>MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>>>>
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ct
>>>>>>line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/734 - Release Date:
>>>>>>26/03/2007 14:31
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         =20
>>>>>>
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