[modeleng] Re: voltage controll

Hi,
Thanks for this.
I did just that, I boiled an old one in h2o + washing powder(tip from my 
local chemist),(after trying very solvent know to me) and that has 
gotten me a good deal of info. I also have a brand new one, that i have 
used to do some messurements on its terminals. That also gave some good 
intel.
Many thanks
regards
patrick
bede@xxxxxxx wrote:

>>"You will have guessed, that these key-components are the ones that are
>>fried...so I cann't even determine wether they are traics or thyristors...."
>>    
>>
>
>Would it be worth buying one more new AVR and dissecting it to get a
>handle on the "key components"?  Just a thought...
>
>Bede
>Brooklyn
>
>On 3/27/2007, "Patrick Coppens- Marian Lynch" <sb286643@xxxxxxxxx>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Rich,
>>yes, I have done this as far as it was possible, but most of the=20
>>components are not numbered, and the resostors not colorcoded (chinese=20
>>electronics). this helped, but I cann't find some of the key components=20
>>in any data base (and I have a big collection of them).
>>You will have guessed, that these key-components are the ones that are=20
>>fried...so I cann't even determine wether they are traics or thyristors....
>>I have the print layout and the general principle of the circuit, but I=20
>>am reluctant to use a design of my one, based on this partial info,=20
>>since I do not want to burn out the field coils of the gen head.
>>That is why a circuit diagram would confirm my findings and put my mind=20
>>at ease. Or prevent me from doing more damage; whatever the case may be....
>>Patrick
>>
>>R.L. Roebuck wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Any chance of using the ruined/dismantled AVR to get a fix on where the=20
>>>main power components are.
>>>
>>>Take one of the previously blown AVR's and bore down through those  bits=20
>>>of the resin, so that you can bring the connections out, and then hook up=
>>>      
>>>
>=20
>  
>
>>>some respecified power components, mounted on heatsinks?
>>>
>>>Yours,
>>>
>>>
>>>Rich.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, 27 Mar 2007, Patrick Coppens- Marian Lynch wrote:
>>>
>>>=20
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Thank you for this,
>>>>To answer one question
>>>>"especially if we are talking high voltage and power components (unless
>>>>this is your speciality)."
>>>>
>>>>yes it is...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It is a matter of design, as these things have to dissipate way too much
>>>>heat, and are made of components that are what we call "borderline
>>>>spec". The dimensioning of the semiconductors leaves almost nothing as a
>>>>margin.
>>>>On top of this flaw (done for 'the cheap') the embedding in 'the gunk'
>>>>mentioned makes sure that the heat cann't go anywhere. So
>>>>transistors/triacs or thyristors call it a day....for good.
>>>>Imagine the cooler of your CPU in the very computer you use to,so
>>>>kindly,share your ideas with me is packed in silicone! It wouldn't last
>>>>long enough to read the answer to this message...
>>>>The cooling fins of the thyristors are on top of being packed in resin,
>>>>so small, that they are, in short; useless. this is done to make the
>>>>unit fit inside the generator head. This is ,next to the diesel, the
>>>>hottest part of the genset.
>>>>The people who make these sets, have by admission of one of there own
>>>>technicians, changed the place were they mount this unit.(outside the
>>>>gen head)
>>>>Not because they want to keep it cooler, but because it takes too much
>>>>time to dismantel the units (they seem to have to do a lot of that...)
>>>>The system of self exiting generator heads is a good one ,in concept, it
>>>>cals for little repairs.
>>>>So the manufacturers have to generate some trade in spare parts. This is
>>>>one way of doing it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Many thanks
>>>>Regards
>>>>Patrick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>R.L. Roebuck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  =20
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Hi there Partick,
>>>>>
>>>>>If I was tackling this myself, then I would possibly be thinking along
>>>>>the following lines. I may be wrong, but this is what my thoughts are....
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this a common problem for other people using these
>>>>>generator sets - if so you'd think that there'd be other peoples comments
>>>>>about it online for the make you have.
>>>>>
>>>>>If not, is it worth making sure you don't think it's something you're
>>>>>doing that's blowing it - 3 times is usually my limit for smoking bits
>>>>>before I sit down and have a few cups of tea, and run it past a colleague=
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>.
>  
>
>>>>>If you're happy it's a problem with this make of AVR then is there any
>>>>>sense in buying an AVR for a different make of generator set, one with a
>>>>>better reputation?
>>>>>
>>>>>If not, then you're implying that all such AVR's have this kind of
>>>>>problem, and so no matter how much skill you have in the field, it will
>>>>>count for nothing, as you're looking at a reaearch and development
>>>>>problem, and you will doubtless spend more money on blown components in
>>>>>testing and trying that it will cost you to buy a handful of new AVR's -
>>>>>especially if we are talking high voltage and power components (unless
>>>>>this is your speciality).
>>>>>
>>>>>You will also end up spending valuable workshop time doing what you do al=
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>l
>  
>
>>>>>day at work.
>>>>>
>>>>>...it may be more of a reality check than what you were looking for - but
>>>>>I thought I'd put 'pen to paper' just incase the thoughts were of any use=
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>.
>  
>
>>>>>Yours,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Rich.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    =20
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Patrick Coppens- Marian Lynch" <sb286643@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 4:21 PM
>>>>>>Subject: [modeleng] voltage controll
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      =20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Evnin' All
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I my Workshop, I have a 3 phase (6,5KVA) diesel genset.
>>>>>>>This provides the current for my (big ) lathe and a number of other 3
>>>>>>>phase motors.
>>>>>>>For the 3rd time the AVR (automatic voltage controller) has clapped out=
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>.
>  
>
>>>>>>>At 100 euro's a pop, yours truly is fed up.
>>>>>>>I am an electronics engineer, so I can design/ make a more robust one
>>>>>>>myself, but it would help to have a circuit diagram of one.
>>>>>>>The commercial ones are embedded in a sort of gunk ,to protect them fro=
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>m
>  
>
>>>>>>>moisture and prying eyes like mine...
>>>>>>>So it is impossible to get that stuff of, without totaly mangeling to
>>>>>>>circuitboard.
>>>>>>>I did that anway, only to find out, that most of the components have no
>>>>>>>serial/type numbers
>>>>>>>Even the resistors are not colorcoded!
>>>>>>>Any body any ideas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Patrick
>>>>>>>Flanders
>>>>>>>MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
>>>>>>>modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subje=
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>ct
>  
>
>>>>>>>line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/734 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>26/03/2007 14:31
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        =20
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>t line.
>  
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      =20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
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>>>>>          
>>>>>
> line.
>  
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>>>>>
>>>>>    =20
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
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>line.
>  
>
>>>>  =20
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
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>>>      
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>ine.
>  
>
>>>=20
>>>
>>>      
>>>
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>>    
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>ne.
>  
>
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