[modeleng] Re: plastic pipe - why not composite?

Jeff, I agree that R & D is very expensive.  What I
had in mind was/is that perhaps there is someone among
us in that field that may know of a product that is
already on the market that would be suitable for
Alan's application.

Al Messer

--- Jeff Dayman <jeffdayman@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Such developments cost millions of dollars these
> days Al.
> 
> It might be possible but there needs to be a market
> for the end product and
> a business plan to pay for it. Very few companies
> are doing such research
> into new plastics materials because of the cost and
> also because there is no
> urgent need for them.
> 
> The car companies have been working for YEARS to
> develop hi temp high
> strength plastics for use in engines and are not
> there yet (and may never
> be). If someone figured out a plastic that you could
> injection mould car
> cylinder heads from, cheaper than cast iron, but
> would do the same job, the
> plastic would suddenly drop in price because of high
> volume mass production.
> 
> Metals are the most cost effective solution today
> for hi temp hi pressure
> applications, and in fact are cheaper than plastics
> for such applications.
> This may change in future, but that is today's
> reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Allen Messer" <al_messer@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:07 PM
> Subject: [modeleng] Re: plastic pipe - why not
> composite?
> 
> 
> > Many years ago, my high school Chemistry teacher
> > explained to us that "Freon" was an "engineered
> gas",
> > that is, the chemical engineers had decided what
> > characteristics they wanted before hand and then
> > developed the formula and process to get Freon.
> >
> > Why can't this be done with the problem with your
> > question?  Surely there are some qualified
> > Chemists/Petro-chemical Engineers among us that
> could
> > answer this question with authority.
> >
> > Al Messer
> >
> > --- alan stepney <alan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > Rich, I was / am looking for 275F = 135C, which
> > > would be the temperature at
> > > about 30psi, saturated steam.
> > >
> > > It seems that there are some plastics that can
> > > withstand that temperature,
> > > but whether or not they are suitable for steam,
> and
> > > that pressure, is
> > > another matter.
> > > Plus there would need to be an allowance for
> safety.
> > >
> > > With advances in plastic technology, it looks
> > > possible now, and if it isnt,
> > > I would say will certainly be so in the near
> future.
> > > Alan
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "R.L. Roebuck" <rlr20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:53 AM
> > > Subject: [modeleng] Re: plastic pipe - why not
> > > composite?
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi there Alan,
> > >
> > > One more thing you may like to consider: quite
> > > frequently where they
> > > appear to have used a plastic for something that
> you
> > > wouldn't have though
> > > they could have used it for, they haven't used a
> > > plain plastic.
> > >
> > > I would image that if you took a plastic that
> could
> > > take high temp but not
> > > high pressure; and then added something to it to
> > > make it into a composite
> > > then this would increase it's strength so that
> it
> > > could take the pressure,
> > > for example a glass filled plastic composite.
> > >
> > > I've got part of a truck air cussion spring a
> few
> > > feet away from me, that
> > > will take 5 tonnes of load, and it has a plastic
> > > base (with steel inserts
> > > for the bolting points though). It is a glass
> > > plastic composite.
> > >
> > > The only problem is that you don't want to alter
> > > it's properties so that
> > > it would shatter if the steam pressure was too
> > > great, you'd really want
> > > it to bulge instead (if you see what I'm getting
> > > at).
> > >
> > > Possibly someone else on the list could advise
> about
> > > modern plastic
> > > composites, or you could look up a list on the
> web.
> > >
> > > RS has a good list in it's catalogue (you may be
> > > able to get to it online
> > > rswww.com or I can send you a scan of the
> catalogue
> > > pages if you want).
> > >
> > > They have one - PPS 40% glass filled which they
> say
> > > has high thermal
> > > mechanical strength. max long term service temp
> > > 230degC.
> > >
> > > Thinking of materials more common to model
> > > engineers, Tufnol Carp and
> > > Tufnol Whale are both capable of taking up to
> > > 120degC and have good
> > > mechanical strength - what temp did you need
> again?
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > >
> > > Rich.
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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