[modeleng] Re: US Codes is/was Boiler Certificates

Hi Harry,

Thanks for this, I have to say I'm surprised as there must be federal 
regs and standards for performance and safety for things like 
commercial airline engines,  nuclear reactors, etc.  I know those are 
big ticket items, but then so are industrial and commercial power 
boilers which, from what you write, seem (to some degree) arbitrarily 
regulated ("...some states adopt only parts of (the ASME code)...").

Two questions if you have time, you could respond off-list if this is 
too narrow a focus for the list-

Do you know who/what entity inspects and certifies full-sized steam 
locomotive boilers here in the States and how it compares to practice 
in the UK?

What might have led to the relative rigorousness and uniformity with 
which the model engineering society in the UK self-tests and certifies 
boilers, and the relative lack of testing/certification here in the 
States?  I know of one local club that hauls over 1000 passengers on 
each of its run days and no testing/certs are required for any of the 
engines (3.5", 4 1/2" and 7 1/4").  PA live steamers, on the other 
hand, does I think require testing/certs along the lines of the UK 
specs.

Thanks for any time here, regards,
Bede McC.


On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Harry Wade wrote:

> At 05:48 AM 8/27/07 -0700, you wrote:
>>> I am sure that some of the US members here will comment, but with no
>>> national code or rules, it is down to each club. - Alan Stepney
>
> Alan, Bede, Al, et al,
>       There very definitely is a boiler code in the USA but it is not a 
> national
> code in the usual sense and it does not apply to model boilers.
>       The US Federal Gov't is not in the boiler business so there are no 
> Federal
> boiler laws or codes beyond what regulations the Gov't creates for 
> itself
> for use in its own service installations, military, etc, or consumer
> proctection regulation which might set standards for design and 
> testing of
> things like domestic water boilers, air compressor reservoirs, etc.
>       All US boiler codes are enacted and enforced by the individual states 
> and
> the majority of those state codes are based upon the ASME (American 
> Society
> of Mechanical Engineers) code for fired pressure vessels.  Some states
> adopt the entire ASME code and some states adopt only parts of it or
> paraphrase it and may include or exclude things as they see fit and for
> this reason individual state codes can vary considerably.
>       Other than for flues or heat exchanger tubes, the ASME code does not 
> allow
> copper as a building material in any boiler so a copper boiler cannot 
> meet
> the requirements of a state code which has the ASME code as its basis, 
> but
> then one must remember that the purpose of the ASME code is to provide 
> a
> code for full size working industrial and commercial power boilers, 
> not to
> cover hobbyists.
>       Simply building a model boiler in steel rather than copper does not 
> assure
> code compliance.  There is no middle ground, a boiler is either 
> "compliant"
> or "Non-compliant", and many model boilers cannot comply because size
> limitations prevent them meeting every single ASME code requirement.
> Although the ASME code has a section entitled "Miniature Boilers" that 
> name
> does NOT mean "model" or hobby boilers; it refers to small commercial
> boilers such as might be used by manufacturers or laundries and such.
>       As a result of work by live steamers and other steam hobbyists, many
> states have enacted "exclusions" in their boiler laws which specfically
> exclude hobby boilers of certain size, typically by grate area, age,
> operating pressure, or capacity in volumn, or a combination of these.  
> Some
> states have no exclusions at all and enforce their boiler law 
> vigourously
> while others have an almost no-see/no-tell approach.
>       What the US does not have, and in all probability will never have, is 
> a
> comprehensive MODEL code which is created, applied, and enforced by
> hobbyists.   The reasons historically are that there are too many 
> experts
> and many builders aren't going to allow someone else tell them what to 
> do
> (this being a "free" country and all . . . )
>       Currently in the US there is a positive direction.  Although I'm not 
> sure
> how much longer this trend will continue, for some time now US live
> steamers have been building bigger.  Due to costs of materials and 
> loss of
> the art of copper bashing (well except for one or two of us) copper 
> boiler
> building in large scales is decreasing and steel is increasingly the
> material of choice.  In that shift there is also an increased 
> awareness and
> desire by most builders to have a boiler that is "code", at least to 
> the
> extent possible.  Whether this comes from increased individual 
> awareness of
> the need for safety, or whether builders are feeling the cold breath of
> state inspectors on their necks, the result is the same.
>
> Regards,
> Harry
>
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