[modeleng] Re: Second hand boilers
- From: Mike Leahy <heisler9-modeleng2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:39:21 +0100
Hi All
The following response to Rich's query is aimed at UK listees.
R.L. Roebuck wrote
>
> Does anyone know what the position is regarding second hand boilers,
Any boiler, either as a stand alone unit or incorporated into a model,
placed on the market before 30 May 2002 is exempt from recent legislation
(PER) providing evidence to support the fact is available (e.g. a receipt)
> *If I buy a second hand loco and it has no boiler paperwork, and is not
> professionally made, but it looks okay (I agree this is no guarantee that
> it wont fail a boiler test); has been used prior to the new regulations,
> but I have no way of proving this, will I be able to get my club to give
> it a boiler certificate?
Any amateur built boiler first placed on the market after that date will
have to have a history of usage prior to being first placed on the market.
Now obviously a boiler certificate may seem to suffice but beware, for the
wording is a history of USAGE. So a boiler built but never incorporated into
a model will obviously not have a history of usage. Obviously, to have
been used a boiler certificate should at some stage have been issued and
this will help establish some age for the boiler but it is the history of
usage that has to be established. Photographic evidence of the model in use
at some identifiable event may help or your club may accept a sworn
affidavit from an independent person, other than the seller, who has
knowledge of the boiler/model in use.
>
> ALSO
>
> * I instead I buy the loco from a second hand loco dealer, who has bought
> the loco under the same similar circumstances, but then tests the boiler
> and issues it with a certificate to say it has had a steam and hydraulic
> test; where will I stand as far as a club boiler tester is concerned, will
> they refuse to issue it with a Northern or Southern fed boiler
> certificate?
>
Unless the dealer can establish a history of usage for the boiler prior to
it being first placed on the market (this may be when he purchased it from
whomever or it could have been bought and sold many times prior to the
dealer acquiring it) then maybe the only course open to him is to state
that it doesn't comply with the relevant regulations and therefore may only
be used as a static model. However at the the very least he should undertake
hydraulic and steam tests as stringent as I outline below and any
certificate issued by the trader should have proof that his boiler inspector
has adequate professional indemnity insurance.
Notwithstanding any of the above it is whether or not your club and its
inspectors are willing to accept/subsequently test the boiler.
If so, below are some points that need to be considered. No doubt there are
others.
1) The inspectors will have to satisfy themselves (and perhaps others) that
in examining/testing the boiler they have been stringent enough and that
all reasonable precautions were made in establishing the suitability of the
boiler for future use. Ideally any risk assessment should be recorded.
3) The boiler will need a full external examination to establish
thicknesses of materials and to check for leaks, stay failures etc. For
locomotives the boiler shall be dismounted from the frames and all cladding
removed. For traction engines the hornplates and cladding will need to be
removed. (Wow!)
4) The club will have to determine what is the design working pressure of
the boiler before it can establish what test pressure it should apply.
5) In the absence of previous test certificates it should be treated as a
NEW boiler and be subjected to a test pressure of at least TWICE (x2)
working pressure
6) If a published design, has the correct gauge of material be used in its
construction? Does it comply with the published design
7) If an unpublished design can it be demonstrated by design drawings and
calculations or the use of modern design codes (e.g. the Australian
Association of Live Steamers) that the design and materials used (thickness,
grade etc) are adequate for the intended working pressure?
8) Have the joining procedures (silver soldering, welding) been been
adequately undertaken?
9) If a steel boiler then extra criteria should be considered
Is there proof that the correct grade/specification of material been used?
(e.g. can material codes stamped on the boiler be cross referenced with
known data bases)
If no material specification can be established can the inspectors satisfy
themselves as to the suitability of the material used? (Probably not!)
Has the boiler been maintained and stored correctly?
If of some obvious age or it appears to have been well used can the
inspectors be satisfied regarding internal wasting and corrosion and should
they consider the use of equipment not normally available to them (e.g.
ultrasonic testing, x-rays, dye penetration, magnetic particle inspection)
to establish the integrity of the boiler.
10) If the boiler comes with a test certificate issued by a dealer, but
without previous records to establish its provenance it will need to be
proven that at some stage the boiler has been tested to TWICE (x2)working
pressure. The club and its inspectors need to satisfy themselves that if
they are to accept a test certificate issued by a dealer then all criteria
have been met.
Providing the boiler can meet the requirements of the test code that
satisfies our insurers then then there should be no reason as to its
continued use and there should be no come back on the club inspector.
No doubt in these early days of legislation, such as PER, there will be the
odd boiler that does not have a recorded provenance and providing the
inspector can demonstrate that he has taken all reasonable precautions to
establish the safe usage of the boiler I see no reason why it should not
continue to be used. This doesn't mean that this route will stand
interrogation I in the foreseeable future.
Obviously, boilers with a recorded history of having passed hydraulic and
steam tests makes life a lot easier for all concerned and the new test
regime and recording that will come into force from Jan 1st 2006 will
hopefully establish this provenance for all boilers.
To make everybody's life easier, buy a boiler of known provenance!
--
Regards
Mike Leahy
South Ockendon, UK
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