[modeleng] Re: Juliet's

More expensive is usually the case over here. It's cheaper for me to buy 
BA fasteners direct from (say) Macc's Models  or EPK in the UK.
R.L. Roebuck wrote:
> Hi there Phill,
> It is worth noting that most model engineering suppliers have/had more 
> trade than they need. As such...
>
> If a model engineering supplier has paid to get parts cast say 6 months 
> ago, when raw materials prices were higher, they will likely not want to 
> make a loss, so will try to sell on at those prices, even though if they 
> got you some cast now, it would likely cost less.
>
> If E & J Winters turnoever and stock-levels are a bit more 'long-term' 
> than Blackgates this might explain why against all logic and reason, 
> you're 'local' supplier is costing more.
>
> Yours,
>
>
> Rich.
>
>
> On Wed, 20 May 2009, Phill Smith wrote:
>
>   
>> G'Day John,
>> I hadn't tried E & J Winter.
>>
>> I followed your link, and the drawings are listed at AU$95. They are cheaper 
>> from GLR [ (UK$24 + UK$3) x 2.5 = AU$67.50 ]
>>
>> I'll fire him off an email shortly asking for prices and availability, of 
>> cylinder and wheel castings.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Phill.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Buckley" <jfsbuckley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:41 PM
>> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Good Morning Phill,
>>>
>>> Have you tried E & J Winter in Aus. I am sure that they used to supply
>>> Juliet castings and drawings.
>>>
>>> http://www.ejwinter.com.au/catalogue/ejw-map-plans-8-08.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> John
>>> (Tamworth NSW)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: modeleng-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeleng-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Phill Smith
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2009 12:42 AM
>>> To: modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>>>
>>> G'Day Rich,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your reply. It is really handy to know that there are others out
>>> there who are willing to help.
>>>
>>> I was surprised by Pete's responce to my queries, which is why I included it
>>>
>>> in my last posting. It really looks like he doesn't know his products. I
>>> hope I'm wrong there, not for him personnally, but for the hobby. If our
>>> suppliers don't know thier product, then it shows, and people won't want to
>>> use them. They then close up shop. It doesn't take long before there are no
>>> suppliers left to supply us.....
>>>
>>> I have send an email of to Blackgates to see what thier prices are like. I
>>> don't know HOW I missed the juliet when I looked before.....
>>>
>>> Looking at the original ME's drawings, there are very few dimensions given
>>> for the cylinders. I assume, from when LBSC wrote on the text, that the
>>> drawings given to the casting suppliers had enough detail to enable them to
>>> make correct patterns for the cylinders. Unfortunately, those details are
>>> not in the article drawings.
>>>
>>> Oh my...... I have just looked at the link to Walsall Model Industries, that
>>>
>>> Alan sent in one of his posts. 2 sets of cylinder castings for 35
>>> pounds!!!!!! I'll send them an email VERY SHORTLY, to check on the size of
>>> them, as they are listed on their Gauge 1 page. No wheels listed
>>> though...... Prayers everyone!!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Phill.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "R.L. Roebuck" <rlr20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM
>>> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Hi there Phill,
>>>> If you look on...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.blackgates.co.uk/body_3_5__gauge_locos.html
>>>>
>>>> Blackgates definitely do Juliet!
>>>>
>>>> The price for their postage to you in Oz may be slightly cheaper as if
>>>> memory serves correctly their castings use the late Norman Spinks pattern
>>>> for the driving wheels, which is quite 'lean', ie less metal to post to
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> On the down side though, less room for error (especially if you teaching
>>>> someone to machine). Also I've never had a bad thing to say about GLR and
>>>> Pete, so I wouldn't want to put you off from ordering from him.
>>>>
>>>> Yours,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rich.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 19 May 2009, Phill Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> G'Day John, Jeff, TEL, And Everyone else,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fabricating cylinders is easy enough. The boring head makes accurate
>>>>> fitting
>>>>> together easy enough, but that applies to making patterns as well..... I
>>>>> didn't really want to fabricate them, but that may be (as both Jeff and
>>>>> John
>>>>> pointed out) the cheaper option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blackgates doesn't list Juliet as something they do, so I didn't bother
>>>>> contacting them.... Maybe I should have.
>>>>>
>>>>> Below is the 2 replies that I have had from GLR in the UK..... I am
>>>>> simply
>>>>> amazed by the responces. Knowing your product and showing some interest,
>>>>> is
>>>>> obviously a thing of the past.......
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil,
>>>>>            post for dwgs £3.00      we supply wheel castings 4 @ £44.00
>>>>> Cyliner castings @ £90.00   ring 01327 878988
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                  Pete
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>  From: Phill Smith
>>>>>  To: Peteglr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>  Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:20 PM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: Juliet drawings and castings
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  G'Day Pete,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I'm after inside valve gear (Stephenson's valvegear). Version 2 has
>>>>> Baker's valvegear.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Do you supply cylinder and wheel castings?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>  Phill.
>>>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>    From: Peteglr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>    To: Phill Smith
>>>>>    Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:58 PM
>>>>>    Subject: Re: Juliet drawings and castings
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Do you want inside cylinders or outside cylinders, drawings for either
>>>>> are £24.00 + p & p
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete GLR
>>>>>      ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>      From: Phill Smith
>>>>>      To: peteglr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>      Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:20 PM
>>>>>      Subject: Juliet drawings and castings
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      To whom it May Concern,
>>>>>
>>>>>      I am attempting to source drawings and castings for LBSC's Juliet
>>>>> (version 1).
>>>>>
>>>>>      If you are able to supply, could you please give me prices and
>>>>> postage
>>>>> costs to Australia.
>>>>>
>>>>>      If you can't supply, could you provide me with the contact details
>>>>> of
>>>>> suppliers who can.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Thanks in advance,
>>>>>
>>>>>      Phillip Smith.
>>>>>
>>>>> The price for the wheels and cylinders are MUCH better than Reeves'
>>>>> price.
>>>>> But still..... 11 pounds for a wheel 3.5" in diameter???? That's about
>>>>> AU$27.50 each. It's a much better price than Reeves!!! I think it may(?)
>>>>> be
>>>>> worth getting these....
>>>>> I can machine them out of centrifugally cast CI, for less than that.
>>>>> Spokes
>>>>> and all. But, it's the time factor that I don't like...... I suppose they
>>>>> could just be solids like Tich's. The other thing is that they would need
>>>>>           
>>>>> to
>>>>> be tired as the centrifugally cast stuff is softer than regular castings.
>>>>>           
>>>>> No
>>>>> big deal, just another thing to do that I doubt my son would be up to
>>>>> yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know about the LPG furnass TEL. The only one I have had
>>>>> experience
>>>>> with (LPG that is) was in high school, and that used a lot of gas to melt
>>>>>           
>>>>> a
>>>>> piddly little bit of aluminium. It was probably just the design or the
>>>>> way
>>>>> it was being used. Haven't you got a gas one up and running? How much gas
>>>>> does it use to melt a given amount of bronze?
>>>>>
>>>>> OK so in summary.....
>>>>>
>>>>> Buy Drawings (drawings in original ME's too hard to read convieniently)
>>>>> Fabricate GM cylinders (cyl section from hollow bar - valve section could
>>>>> waste a bit of metal in swarf, but my mill will quickly remove that)
>>>>> Buy wheel castings. 44 pounds stirling (AU$110) per loco
>>>>> Fabricate everything else (GM axleboxes sound like a good idea - dunno
>>>>> how
>>>>> they would wear in the horn block area though.... Alan?)
>>>>> Buy boiler barrel material from UK (3.5" dia is not a size available "of
>>>>> the
>>>>> shelf" in Oz")
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything else?????
>>>>>
>>>>> Lagging of boiler? What is the normal practice in the little league? 1/8
>>>>> cork is an excellent lagging material. I have used it on my 7.25" gauge
>>>>> loco
>>>>> and had great results. I had to relag it (can't remember why) and used
>>>>> 3mm
>>>>> ceramic fibre sheet and found it NOT as good as cork. Perhaps because I
>>>>> SQUEEZED in 2 sheets..... ?  Anyway, I thought 1/8" of cork  between the
>>>>> boiler and cladding would do it some good. I will need to roll a larger
>>>>> smokebox (1/4" bigger in dia) but that's no big deal..
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, as an aside.... I noticed that there are dome castings offered by
>>>>> Reeves. Doesn't anyone, besides me, spin domes anymore? I have spun a few
>>>>> for my friends ranging from 1" dia x 1.5" to 6" dia x 9", in both brass
>>>>> and
>>>>> copper, and the size makes no difference to process. It just takes longer
>>>>> for the bigger ones. Who else on this list spins items?
>>>>>
>>>>> And another aside..... Clarkson autolock collet chucks.... For those of
>>>>> you
>>>>> who have never used one, these are the ultimate clamping system to hold
>>>>> onto
>>>>> your slot drills (2 or 3 flute centre cutting end mills) when doing
>>>>> plunging
>>>>> work. Every other clamping system can slip allowing the cutter to pull
>>>>> out
>>>>> or push in. If you get the chance to buy one, do so. They are well worth
>>>>> the
>>>>> investment. They pop up on ebay occationally, with the shank for either
>>>>> MT3,
>>>>> R8, NT30, or NT40. The only drawback is that you can only use threaded
>>>>> shanked slot drills or end mills. Unfortunately none of the tungstan
>>>>> carbide
>>>>> cutters have threaded shanks.....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Phill.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "John Baguley" <baggo@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 4:44 AM
>>>>> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> It wouldn't be too difficult to fabricate the cylinders from a bit of
>>>>>> cored bronze or gunmetal with a bronze or gunmetal port face silver
>>>>>> soldered on or even machine them from the solid. All the rest could be
>>>>>> brass. Valve chest built up from brass bar silver soldered together and
>>>>>> end covers turned from brass bar with a bronze bush for the piston rod.
>>>>>> Much easier than making patterns and having castings made. A lot cheaper
>>>>>> too!
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TEL wrote:
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Nope, no Juliet, so I can't be of help.
>>>>>>> Furnace - propane will provide plenty of heat for doing bronze - might
>>>>>>> be a bit of a pinch for CI  although it has been done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I too had a look at Reeves' site the other day - and they reckon Ned
>>>>>>> Kelly was a crook eh?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phill Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> G'Day Alan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The angle iron buffers is as LBSC originally designed it. They were
>>>>>>>> originally brazed onto the side sheets. I don't like that, so I'll
>>>>>>>> bolt
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>> with angle brackets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was lucky I was sitting down when I went to the AJ Reeves site and
>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>> at thier prices for cylinder sets.... 177 pounds for 1 cylinder
>>>>>>>> set!!!!!
>>>>>>>> Just ONE cylinder set. They have just lost my business...... What a
>>>>>>>> mob
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> thieves!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>> I hate patternmaking!!!! Oh well, looks like there is no choice now.
>>>>>>>> Unless
>>>>>>>> I can find someone that has some patterns that they wouldn't mind
>>>>>>>> lending
>>>>>>>> me...... They would be rare these days.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TEL, didn't you make a Juliet? Where did you get your castings from?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe I should concentrate on building a oil fired (I don't know if
>>>>>>>> LPG
>>>>>>>> would be hot enough) furnass first....... There's no shortage of good
>>>>>>>> quality green sand around here......
>>>>>>>> Anyone got any drawings for one? I had better get started, otherwise
>>>>>>>> disapointment awaits the delayed start on the project.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Phill.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Alan Stepney" <alan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:42 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> I used bronze axleboxes, so...
>>>>>>>>> Angle iron for the buffer beams would save some work.
>>>>>>>>> Drain cocks, OK.
>>>>>>>>> I dont see the need for a horiz stretcher, but nothing to stop you
>>>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>>>> one of you feel it worthwile.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for time, I was assuming lots of hand work, but if you have, for
>>>>>>>>> example,
>>>>>>>>> a mill (which you mentioned) and are making jogs etc, then, eys, that
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> shorten it considerably.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> http://www.walsallmodelindustries.co.uk/www.walsallmodelindustries.co.uk/inf
>>> o.php?p&pno=0
>>>       
>>>>>>>>> are an alternative to Reeves et al, although I have never used them
>>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>>>>>>>
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