[modeleng] Re: Juliet's

Hi there Phill,
It is worth noting that most model engineering suppliers have/had more 
trade than they need. As such...

If a model engineering supplier has paid to get parts cast say 6 months 
ago, when raw materials prices were higher, they will likely not want to 
make a loss, so will try to sell on at those prices, even though if they 
got you some cast now, it would likely cost less.

If E & J Winters turnoever and stock-levels are a bit more 'long-term' 
than Blackgates this might explain why against all logic and reason, 
you're 'local' supplier is costing more.

Yours,


Rich.


On Wed, 20 May 2009, Phill Smith wrote:

> G'Day John,
> I hadn't tried E & J Winter.
>
> I followed your link, and the drawings are listed at AU$95. They are cheaper 
> from GLR [ (UK$24 + UK$3) x 2.5 = AU$67.50 ]
>
> I'll fire him off an email shortly asking for prices and availability, of 
> cylinder and wheel castings.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Phill.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Buckley" <jfsbuckley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:41 PM
> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>
>
>> Good Morning Phill,
>>
>> Have you tried E & J Winter in Aus. I am sure that they used to supply
>> Juliet castings and drawings.
>>
>> http://www.ejwinter.com.au/catalogue/ejw-map-plans-8-08.pdf
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> John
>> (Tamworth NSW)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: modeleng-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeleng-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Phill Smith
>> Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2009 12:42 AM
>> To: modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>>
>> G'Day Rich,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. It is really handy to know that there are others out
>> there who are willing to help.
>>
>> I was surprised by Pete's responce to my queries, which is why I included it
>>
>> in my last posting. It really looks like he doesn't know his products. I
>> hope I'm wrong there, not for him personnally, but for the hobby. If our
>> suppliers don't know thier product, then it shows, and people won't want to
>> use them. They then close up shop. It doesn't take long before there are no
>> suppliers left to supply us.....
>>
>> I have send an email of to Blackgates to see what thier prices are like. I
>> don't know HOW I missed the juliet when I looked before.....
>>
>> Looking at the original ME's drawings, there are very few dimensions given
>> for the cylinders. I assume, from when LBSC wrote on the text, that the
>> drawings given to the casting suppliers had enough detail to enable them to
>> make correct patterns for the cylinders. Unfortunately, those details are
>> not in the article drawings.
>>
>> Oh my...... I have just looked at the link to Walsall Model Industries, that
>>
>> Alan sent in one of his posts. 2 sets of cylinder castings for 35
>> pounds!!!!!! I'll send them an email VERY SHORTLY, to check on the size of
>> them, as they are listed on their Gauge 1 page. No wheels listed
>> though...... Prayers everyone!!!!!
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Phill.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "R.L. Roebuck" <rlr20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM
>> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>>
>>
>>> Hi there Phill,
>>> If you look on...
>>>
>>> http://www.blackgates.co.uk/body_3_5__gauge_locos.html
>>>
>>> Blackgates definitely do Juliet!
>>>
>>> The price for their postage to you in Oz may be slightly cheaper as if
>>> memory serves correctly their castings use the late Norman Spinks pattern
>>> for the driving wheels, which is quite 'lean', ie less metal to post to
>>> you.
>>>
>>> On the down side though, less room for error (especially if you teaching
>>> someone to machine). Also I've never had a bad thing to say about GLR and
>>> Pete, so I wouldn't want to put you off from ordering from him.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>>
>>> Rich.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 19 May 2009, Phill Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> G'Day John, Jeff, TEL, And Everyone else,
>>>>
>>>> Fabricating cylinders is easy enough. The boring head makes accurate
>>>> fitting
>>>> together easy enough, but that applies to making patterns as well..... I
>>>> didn't really want to fabricate them, but that may be (as both Jeff and
>>>> John
>>>> pointed out) the cheaper option.
>>>>
>>>> Blackgates doesn't list Juliet as something they do, so I didn't bother
>>>> contacting them.... Maybe I should have.
>>>>
>>>> Below is the 2 replies that I have had from GLR in the UK..... I am
>>>> simply
>>>> amazed by the responces. Knowing your product and showing some interest,
>>>> is
>>>> obviously a thing of the past.......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Phil,
>>>>            post for dwgs £3.00      we supply wheel castings 4 @ £44.00
>>>> Cyliner castings @ £90.00   ring 01327 878988
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                  Pete
>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>  From: Phill Smith
>>>>  To: Peteglr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>  Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:20 PM
>>>>  Subject: Re: Juliet drawings and castings
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  G'Day Pete,
>>>>
>>>>  I'm after inside valve gear (Stephenson's valvegear). Version 2 has
>>>> Baker's valvegear.
>>>>
>>>>  Do you supply cylinder and wheel castings?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>  Phill.
>>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>>>    From: Peteglr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>    To: Phill Smith
>>>>    Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:58 PM
>>>>    Subject: Re: Juliet drawings and castings
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Do you want inside cylinders or outside cylinders, drawings for either
>>>> are £24.00 + p & p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pete GLR
>>>>      ----- Original Message -----
>>>>      From: Phill Smith
>>>>      To: peteglr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>      Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:20 PM
>>>>      Subject: Juliet drawings and castings
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      To whom it May Concern,
>>>>
>>>>      I am attempting to source drawings and castings for LBSC's Juliet
>>>> (version 1).
>>>>
>>>>      If you are able to supply, could you please give me prices and
>>>> postage
>>>> costs to Australia.
>>>>
>>>>      If you can't supply, could you provide me with the contact details
>>>> of
>>>> suppliers who can.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>>      Phillip Smith.
>>>>
>>>> The price for the wheels and cylinders are MUCH better than Reeves'
>>>> price.
>>>> But still..... 11 pounds for a wheel 3.5" in diameter???? That's about
>>>> AU$27.50 each. It's a much better price than Reeves!!! I think it may(?)
>>>> be
>>>> worth getting these....
>>>> I can machine them out of centrifugally cast CI, for less than that.
>>>> Spokes
>>>> and all. But, it's the time factor that I don't like...... I suppose they
>>>> could just be solids like Tich's. The other thing is that they would need
>>
>>>> to
>>>> be tired as the centrifugally cast stuff is softer than regular castings.
>>
>>>> No
>>>> big deal, just another thing to do that I doubt my son would be up to
>>>> yet.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about the LPG furnass TEL. The only one I have had
>>>> experience
>>>> with (LPG that is) was in high school, and that used a lot of gas to melt
>>
>>>> a
>>>> piddly little bit of aluminium. It was probably just the design or the
>>>> way
>>>> it was being used. Haven't you got a gas one up and running? How much gas
>>>> does it use to melt a given amount of bronze?
>>>>
>>>> OK so in summary.....
>>>>
>>>> Buy Drawings (drawings in original ME's too hard to read convieniently)
>>>> Fabricate GM cylinders (cyl section from hollow bar - valve section could
>>>> waste a bit of metal in swarf, but my mill will quickly remove that)
>>>> Buy wheel castings. 44 pounds stirling (AU$110) per loco
>>>> Fabricate everything else (GM axleboxes sound like a good idea - dunno
>>>> how
>>>> they would wear in the horn block area though.... Alan?)
>>>> Buy boiler barrel material from UK (3.5" dia is not a size available "of
>>>> the
>>>> shelf" in Oz")
>>>>
>>>> Anything else?????
>>>>
>>>> Lagging of boiler? What is the normal practice in the little league? 1/8
>>>> cork is an excellent lagging material. I have used it on my 7.25" gauge
>>>> loco
>>>> and had great results. I had to relag it (can't remember why) and used
>>>> 3mm
>>>> ceramic fibre sheet and found it NOT as good as cork. Perhaps because I
>>>> SQUEEZED in 2 sheets..... ?  Anyway, I thought 1/8" of cork  between the
>>>> boiler and cladding would do it some good. I will need to roll a larger
>>>> smokebox (1/4" bigger in dia) but that's no big deal..
>>>>
>>>> Oh, as an aside.... I noticed that there are dome castings offered by
>>>> Reeves. Doesn't anyone, besides me, spin domes anymore? I have spun a few
>>>> for my friends ranging from 1" dia x 1.5" to 6" dia x 9", in both brass
>>>> and
>>>> copper, and the size makes no difference to process. It just takes longer
>>>> for the bigger ones. Who else on this list spins items?
>>>>
>>>> And another aside..... Clarkson autolock collet chucks.... For those of
>>>> you
>>>> who have never used one, these are the ultimate clamping system to hold
>>>> onto
>>>> your slot drills (2 or 3 flute centre cutting end mills) when doing
>>>> plunging
>>>> work. Every other clamping system can slip allowing the cutter to pull
>>>> out
>>>> or push in. If you get the chance to buy one, do so. They are well worth
>>>> the
>>>> investment. They pop up on ebay occationally, with the shank for either
>>>> MT3,
>>>> R8, NT30, or NT40. The only drawback is that you can only use threaded
>>>> shanked slot drills or end mills. Unfortunately none of the tungstan
>>>> carbide
>>>> cutters have threaded shanks.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Phill.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Baguley" <baggo@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 4:44 AM
>>>> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It wouldn't be too difficult to fabricate the cylinders from a bit of
>>>>> cored bronze or gunmetal with a bronze or gunmetal port face silver
>>>>> soldered on or even machine them from the solid. All the rest could be
>>>>> brass. Valve chest built up from brass bar silver soldered together and
>>>>> end covers turned from brass bar with a bronze bush for the piston rod.
>>>>> Much easier than making patterns and having castings made. A lot cheaper
>>>>> too!
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> TEL wrote:
>>>>>> Nope, no Juliet, so I can't be of help.
>>>>>> Furnace - propane will provide plenty of heat for doing bronze - might
>>>>>> be a bit of a pinch for CI  although it has been done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I too had a look at Reeves' site the other day - and they reckon Ned
>>>>>> Kelly was a crook eh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phill Smith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> G'Day Alan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The angle iron buffers is as LBSC originally designed it. They were
>>>>>>> originally brazed onto the side sheets. I don't like that, so I'll
>>>>>>> bolt
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> with angle brackets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was lucky I was sitting down when I went to the AJ Reeves site and
>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>> at thier prices for cylinder sets.... 177 pounds for 1 cylinder
>>>>>>> set!!!!!
>>>>>>> Just ONE cylinder set. They have just lost my business...... What a
>>>>>>> mob
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> thieves!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>> I hate patternmaking!!!! Oh well, looks like there is no choice now.
>>>>>>> Unless
>>>>>>> I can find someone that has some patterns that they wouldn't mind
>>>>>>> lending
>>>>>>> me...... They would be rare these days.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TEL, didn't you make a Juliet? Where did you get your castings from?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe I should concentrate on building a oil fired (I don't know if
>>>>>>> LPG
>>>>>>> would be hot enough) furnass first....... There's no shortage of good
>>>>>>> quality green sand around here......
>>>>>>> Anyone got any drawings for one? I had better get started, otherwise
>>>>>>> disapointment awaits the delayed start on the project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Alan Stepney" <alan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:42 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [modeleng] Re: Juliet's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I used bronze axleboxes, so...
>>>>>>>> Angle iron for the buffer beams would save some work.
>>>>>>>> Drain cocks, OK.
>>>>>>>> I dont see the need for a horiz stretcher, but nothing to stop you
>>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>>> one of you feel it worthwile.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for time, I was assuming lots of hand work, but if you have, for
>>>>>>>> example,
>>>>>>>> a mill (which you mentioned) and are making jogs etc, then, eys, that
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> shorten it considerably.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> http://www.walsallmodelindustries.co.uk/www.walsallmodelindustries.co.uk/inf
>> o.php?p&pno=0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are an alternative to Reeves et al, although I have never used them
>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
>>>>>>>> modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the
>>>>>>>> subject
>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 05/16/09
>>>>>>> 17:05:00
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
>>>>>>> modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the
>>>>>>> subject line.
>>>>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1926 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 01/30/09 17:31:00
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
>>>>>> modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the
>>>>>> subject
>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>>>
>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
>>>>> modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the
>>>>> subject
>>>>> line.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2121 - Release Date:
>>>> 05/18/09
>>>> 17:55:00
>>>>
>>>> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>>
>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
>>>> modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject
>>
>>>> line.
>>>>
>>> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>>
>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
>>> modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject
>>> line.
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2121 - Release Date: 05/18/09
>> 17:55:00
>>
>> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
>> modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject
>> line.
>>
>> __________ NOD32 4087 (20090519) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>>
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
>> modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject 
>> line.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2121 - Release Date: 05/18/09 
> 17:55:00
>
> MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to,
> modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject 
> line.
>
MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST.

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, 
modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.

Other related posts: