[modeleng] Re: Engineering education - rant

I hope that I am not mis-understood, Heaven knows that
I do not want to offend anyone!  As I see it, about 50
years ago, there was a "parting of the ways" among the
two main disciplines in the field of engineering.  It
seems to me that it split into the "Theoretical" and
the "Practical" sides.  The Theoretical could design
like crazy, but could not tap a threaded hole if their
jobs depended on it and the Practical guys, well, they
resented their attitudes.  In fact, I have observed
some strong "feelings" between the two groups: the
"Theorists" looking down their noses at the
"Practical" guys 'cause they "got their hands dirty".

Please do not mis-understand me as I strongly feel
that we desperately need the assets of both groups.  I
just hope that we can get them back together before it
is too late.

Al Messer
--- sehwuk@xxxxxxx wrote:

> I read these forum pages avidly but rarely
> contribute unless I have something whorthwhile to
> say and Peter has hit a nerve where I am concerned.
>  
> 35 years ago I did my apprentiship with Ford Motor
> Company in Dagenham. Since then I've been 'dabbling'
> in model engineering on and off as time and the
> pocket would allow. I now find myself in a position
> to afford not only larger machinery (for a 4"
> Burrell) but a nice big workshop and some time on my
> hands. I would not say I'm a master machinist but
> able to tackle most jobs in hand with respectable
> results.
> Word has now got round - go see him, he's got a big
> lathe and a big mill. So they do and I get moaning
> and groaning that they only want this done or that -
> can't find a toolmaker anywhere, when they can they
> want the earth for a small job. The most common is
> 'they're not interested', jobs not worth the time.
> I've had one chap who only wanted a shaft turning to
> length and a an M10 thread up its bum - the machine
> shop asked if he had a drawing for it ???...Another
> example - I work in a technology company who employ
> ONLY graduate engineers with 1sts. One came to me
> the other week wanting to borrow, and I quote - 'a
> thing to make the hole that makes the thread in a
> bit of metal'. I sat, thought and looked at him and
> asked if would like to borrow a drill, a tap or
> even, maybe, a chisel ?. The 'boy' had a look of
> glee - 'oh goody, 3 things to choose from'.
>  
> Like Peter, I'm beginning to wonder what will happen
> in the future to our 'engineering' capabilities. If
> things do not improve, and soon, 'British
> Engineered' will no longer be a by word, it will be
> extinct.
>  
> I know one thing though - If all these chaps keep
> turning up with these 'little jobs' that nobody else
> are willing to do, the Burrell is going to pay for
> itself in no time - which will be the problem - the
> TIME.
> Right, that's my rant over as well.
>  
> Steve
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: peter.chadwick@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 6.29AM
> Subject: [modeleng] Engineering education - rant
> 
> So I'm out here at the office in San Diego. We
> needed a special test 
> fixture, and rather than do sketches that get turned
> into proper drawings 
> (or draw things correctly as I was taught 40+ years
> ago!) followed by 
> trying to find a jobbing shop that will follow
> drawings rather than 
> 'improve' things to their ideas,  I made the
> necessary fixture in the home 
> workshop in the UK and shipped it out here. Bit of
> turning, boring out 1 
> inch diameter brass bar to fit 22mm copper water
> pipe and a 21mm diameter 
> 1mm pitch thread cutting , with bits of material
> threaded to suit, other 
> turning, threading, knurling and milling jobs - 
> very much an apprentice 
> job of 40 years ago.So I find all the engineers here
> (oldest is about 50) 
> marvel at this.'Where did you learn to do this?'
> sort of thing. 'How do 
> you get this funny finish on a thumb screw?'
> 'Oh, you mean knurling'
> 'Is that what it is?'
> Just what sort of engineers are we turning out these
> days? OK, these are 
> integrated circuit designers, but if you're working
> on radio stuff, you 
> must realise that specialised fixtures are needed. I
> can see that in 10 
> years time, this branch of engineering  will all be
> designed in the far 
> East because our so-called engineers won't know how
> to produce the 
> necessary mechanical fixtures. At the same time,
> 'one offs' that don't 
> actually justify the time taken to program a CAE
> machine just won't be 
> available. Meanwhile,our so-called 'engineers' have
> a very narrow view....
> 
> I wonder if the 'amateur' or 'model' engineer will
> suddenly be in demand 
> for 'craftmanship', although God knows, I'm no
> craftsman. Go to the ME 
> exhibitions, and marvel and wonder at the real
> craftmanship.......I do.
> 
> Not that I know any mechanical engineering. I took
> ONC Applied Mechanics 5 
> times................and failed 5 times. Then gave
> up.
> 
> Peter Chadwick.
> Radio Engineer (and proud of it!)
> Swindon - sometimes. San Diego this week.
> 
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> 
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