I hope they keep the psr interface, like the PSR2000, tyros and such. I saw the psr s900 at guitar center and saw it was still using the same method, a-j and page up/down buttons, so hope they keep that lol. D!J!X! -----Original Message----- From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Matzura Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:27 PM To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif vs Tyros - A Practical Example Wonder how accessible these will be. On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 17:57:57 -0400, you wrote: >I think the s750 will be around $1200 and the s950 is around $1900 but >don't quote me on it. > >They are apparently coming out now. One of the dealers on Synthzone >has received an s750 just this week. > >On 9/22/12, D!J!X! <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> O nice! The 950? Any idea how much that'll be? I imagine the 1g price >> range that the upper mid range psr's have? >> Thanks for the info, looks like a few google moments are in store for >> when I get free time. >> >> THX, D!J!X! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >> On Behalf Of Vince Mistretta >> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 1:05 PM >> To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif vs Tyros - A Practical Example >> >> DJX , >> Wait a few months. The new PSR S750 and S950 are just now coming out. >> >> For the Music Finder Viewer he used Quick Basic. He did some >> accessibility fixes on that product but I didn't work with him on the >> main screen where the lists of entries are. Have to Jaws cursor >> around on that one. Still needs a lot of work but it was helpful. I >> never tried any other software by him. Anyway, I don't have the need >> since I don't have a board which is addressed in his software. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "D!J!X!" <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:28 AM >> To: <MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif vs Tyros - A Practical Example >> >>> Wow, Michael is still around! That's cool... Haven't spoken to him >>> in years. >>> Glad to hear he's still actively developing software for the >>> pssr/tyros line. When I get a s910 or whatever is out now I'll have >>> to >> hunt him down. >>> Vince, has he been able to get accessibility into his tools? >>> Back in the day we were working with java and some other sdk's that >>> made it a task to get things working, not to mention jaws was behind >>> the times (the days of 4.1/4.2). >>> >>> D!J!X! >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>> On Behalf Of Vince Mistretta >>> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 6:46 AM >>> To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif vs Tyros - A Practical Example >>> >>> >>> All of that is only accessed through Sysex controls. If you >>> remember, back a few years ago on the T3 forum we had Michael >>> Bedison who is one of the biggest contributers on PSRTutorials come >>> on and answer many questions. I had asked him if he could modify >>> his Music Finder View application to take that information from a >>> selected song entry and send it to the T3. After a few months of >>> testing it was done. He said he had wanted to do it and was getting >>> held up with some area but found that those areas - tempo especially >>> was changed via PCCC00,c32 and PC controls. The styles, variations, >>> intros and all that other good stuff was only addressable through Sysex. >>> >>> The feature is still available in the program to this date. There >>> is no documentation on this in any of the manuals for either the >>> Tyros line or PSR line. I'm thinking he was able to capture this >>> info through his MIDI out. >>> All the messages are standard over both series; just the id for the >>> board and model is different. >>> >>> I sold my T3 off about two months ago. >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Steve Matzura" <number6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:13 PM >>> To: <MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif vs Tyros - A Practical Example >>> >>>> My big complaint about the Tyros, and, I suspect, any arranger, is >>>> the lack of addressability via MIDI of certain features. I owned a >>>> T3 for about a year, and for the life of me, I could never figure >>>> out how to select styles or fills or breaks via MIDI. My goal in >>>> purchasing the thing was to do all that setup stuff with Sonar, >>>> record a song's backing track, then play over it with both hands. >>>> Ha, I remember as a kid I had this chord organ, and the first thing >>>> I learned to do with it was disable the chord functions so I could >>>> have a fuller keyboard and play my own chords! But what the Tyros >>>> offered in the way of arranger tools was so good, it drew me in, >>>> only to spit me out again when I found out I couldn't fire them via >>>> MIDI. If that capability exists there, I'd sure love to know how >>>> it's supposed to be >> done. >>>> >>>> On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 23:43:55 -0400, you wrote: >>>> >>>>>Bryan, >>>>> >>>>>What a great explanation. >>>>> >>>>>So I had always figured my Tyros was a good choice for the >>>>>realistic instruments. And when I wanted to compose a song with >>>>>multiple tracks, instruments, and effects, then I figured Sonar was my friend. >>>>> >>>>>However, I now appreciate the headwind in getting a DAW with Sonar >>>>>and all the supporting peripherals and wiring working. >>>>> >>>>>Just understanding tracks, channels, busses, banks, patches, sends, >>>>>all that termonology and the routing is enough to drive any >>>>>newcomer crazy. >>>>> >>>>>I can appreciate that it's all pre-packaged in the Motif. But >>>>>still, Motif doesn't talk, so perhaps the memorization necessary to >>>>>master Motif's workstation features is roughly equivalent to >>>>>mastering playing Tyros + Sonar + Cake Talking. >>>>> >>>>>Now if Motif talked, or we could link up Motif screens to an OCR >>>>>engine and have them spoken, that would be the ultimate, wouldn't it? >>>>> >>>>>Thanks again for your detailed explanation, >>>>> >>>>>Ben >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>At 08:31 PM 7/7/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>OK. This can get complicated, but here is the nut shell. >>>>>> >>>>>>An arranger keyboard solves a problem for a few types of musicians. >>>>>> >>>>>>If you gig by yourself, you have a virtual backup band that can >>>>>>play along with you. You select a musical style on the arranger, >>>>>>play the main keyboard part, and the band follows along. The >>>>>>instrument sounds on a good arranger keyboard are going to sound >>>>>>way better than some cheap general MIDI module or canned backing >>>>>>tracks. The keyboard also reacts to you, so if you stretch out >>>>>>with additional choruses, or if you want to throw in a break or >>>>>>solo, you can do that in >> the moment. >>>>>> >>>>>>The other big problem arrangers solve is they help someone that >>>>>>doesn't know how to play keyboard sound like a full band. I don't >>>>>>mean that the musician can't play keys, but playing keyboard is >>>>>>different from playing piano. Keyboard players learn how to spread >>>>>>out with wide two-handed chords to play more realistic guitar >>>>>>parts, how to play the correct intervals for instruments like >>>>>>harmonica, etc. If you play piano well, but don't know how to >>>>>>change your technique for those other instruments, then an arranger helps you. >>>>>>You basically play in the piano part, or else record in a few >>>>>>tracks that serve as guides, pick a style, and the arranger plays >>>>>>all of the other instruments for you. You can write this way, but >>>>>>you focus on the chords and melody, rather than playing each part. >>>>>>The styles are also useful for letting you hear how your chord >>>>>>progression and melody will sound when performed different ways. >>>>>>You focus on the big picture, and let the arranger worry about the details. >>>>>> >>>>>>A workstation keyboard is meant to be a self-contained instrument >>>>>>for composition/production of an entire song. It is supposed to be >>>>>>something like a scaled down studio or DAW. Motif has lots of >>>>>>ready-to-go instrument sounds, both a 16 track linear (tape >>>>>>recorder style), and a 16 track pattern (drum machine style) >>>>>>sequencer, a sampler that can be used to import loops, make new >>>>>>instruments, record vocals, etc, and, finally, Motif has a >>>>>>mixing/mastering system for getting the sound right. You might >>>>>>have a megabucks computer with a mountain of softsynths, but a >>>>>>workstation is a boiled down version of that for getting the tech >>>>>>out of your way so you can write. You turn on the Motif, and it is >>>>>>all there: no updates, drivers, viruses, etc. You perform your >>>>>>parts in to the sequencer on the Motif, mix it on the Motif, and >>>>>>can record your file >> directly to a USB flash drive. >>>>>>The idea is that you sit down, turn on the Motif, quickly play in >>>>>>your idea, quickly mix it, and get up with a recorded song. The >>>>>>computer has more synths, more and better effects, etc etc. If you >>>>>>want to demo a song idea, though, you can throw something together >>>>>>in a short time on the Motif that sounds good, rather than spend >>>>>>hours working through the infinite possibilities on the computer. >>>>>>If you end up loving your demo, you can jump on the computer with >>>>>>a better idea of where you're going. >>>>>> >>>>>>A workstation is also different from an arranger in that it lets >>>>>>you control just about everything. You can record and edit on all >>>>>>16 tracks, instead of a few on an arranger. You have more >>>>>>performance controls that affect the tone of the instrument voice, >>>>>>where an arranger has mostly performance controls that affect the >>>>>>virtual band. You can also tweak the sound of any of your instruments: >>>>>>change the effects, edit the filters, envelopes, LFOs and other >>>>>>mod sources, all the way down to the individual samples, where an >>>>>>arranger doesn't go as deep with control of the instrument sounds. >>>>>> >>>>>>Arps or arpeggios get their name from history. On an instrument, >>>>>>you play an arpeggio by playing the notes of a chord individually >>>>>>in a pattern. In the ancient days, synthesizers had devices called >>>>>>arpeggiators that did this for you. You'd hold down a C major >>>>>>chord, and they'd play c, e, g, e, c, e, g, etc. You could change >>>>>>the pattern, so they'd play c, e, g, c, e, g, or g, e, c, g, e, c, >>>>>>but that was about it. On the Motif, an arpeggio is a bit like >>>>>>that in the sense that you can play a chord, but what comes out is >>>>>>a realistic sounding riff. For example, say you don't know how to >>>>>>play good guitar parts. You can pick a guitar sound for a track, >>>>>>select one of the guitar arpeggios, and just play the chords. The >>>>>>Motif will generate notes that sound like you're strumming, >>>>>>muting, tapping the guitar body for rhythm, etc. The arps on the >>>>>>Motif aren't as smart as the styles on the Tyros, but they try to >>>>>>help in the same way. You can also play them in to the sequencer >>>>>>one at a time, which gives you more control than you get on a >>>>>>Tyros. The Motif has a performance mode, where you can use up to 4 >>>>>>parts at once under arpeggiator control. People commonly make >>>>>>performances that include drums, bass, guitar, and keys. The >>>>>>result is something that sounds similar to a Tyros style, but with fewer parts. >>>>>> >>>>>>You can always hammer in a nail with a screw driver, but it isn't >>>>>>necessarily easy. That's why it's better to get the keyboard that >>>>>>is laid out to best handle the problems that you encounter the >>>>>>most in your work. >>>>>> >>>>>>Bryan >>>>>> >>>>>>On Jul 3, 2012, at 11:10 AM, Ben Humphreys wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Thanks Bryan, I liked your summary: "The Tyros is a great >>>>>>>arranger with some workstation features. The Motif is a great >>>>>>>workstation with some arranger features." >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Unfortunately, I don't yet have a grasp for what "arranger" and >>>>>>>"workstation" mean specifically. However, an example might help >>>>>>>clarify the situation for me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Let's say I have a 4-handed piano piece, such as "Heart and Soul." >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I want to make a first pass with the left handed part, a >>>>>>>repeating pattern. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Then a second pass with the right handed part. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I understand how I might do this with Sonar, recording the left >>>>>>>hands part on a track, and then looping it over and over. Then >>>>>>>putting the right hands part on its own track. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>How might I accomplish this with Motif and/or Tyros? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Is this where arpeggios on Motif come in? Is this where styles >>>>>>>on Tyros come in? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Without regard to using Sonar, how would this be accomplished >>>>>>>on a Motif vs. Tyros? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Obviously, I'm confused about a lot of terms: workstation, >>>>>>>arranger, arpeggios, styles and how they might apply to various >>>>>>>situations, and in particular the one I have described. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I'd be grateful to anyone who can set me straight :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Ben >>>>>>> >>>>>>>At 04:07 PM 7/1/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>>>There are a good many blind Tyros users out there. Most of these >>>>>>>>people are using the Tyros for doing one-man shows: weddings, >>>>>>>>small parties, etc. It is incredibly realistic at being a >>>>>>>>backing band while you play. The styles, harmonizer, and so >>>>>>>>forth aren't really useful if you're playing with a full band. >>>>>>>>Ensemble keyboard players would do better with a workstation, >>>>>>>>where they can split/layer voices as much as they want, as well >>>>>>>>as build their own from scratch. I know a few blind people that >>>>>>>>have the Tyros as a studio sound module, but is very expensive >>>>>>>>for that >> approach. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The Tyros is a great arranger with some workstation features. >>>>>>>>The Motif is a great workstation with some arranger features. My >>>>>>>>personal opinion is that the Tyros is the superior live >>>>>>>>keyboard, and the Motif is the superior studio piece, but they >>>>>>>>both can do either things to some degree. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Anyway, there isn't a blind Tyros users list, as far as I know, >>>>>>>>but lots of them are on MIDI-Mag. At one point, there were panel >>>>>>>>descriptions, menu descriptions, and so on floating around for >>>>>>>>at least the Tyros 3. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I suggest to ask on MIDI-Mag. Go to >>>>>>>><<http://www.midimag.org>http://www.midimag.org>www.midimag.org. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Bryan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Jun 29, 2012, at 4:51 PM, D!J!X! wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The motif is different in the layout and navigation than the >>>>>>>>>tyros and the top line psr. The tyros and psr are aranger >>>>>>>>>keyboards, with the styles and are geared more toward quick >>>>>>>>>composition and perfomance like that. You can use it with a >>>>>>>>>sequencer with no problem, and for quick recordings. Not sure >>>>>>>>>what it has in terms of sampling capabilities, but the motif is >>>>>>>>>more of a workstation, you can make more customized full songs >>>>>>>>>on there, they have pattern mode for quick loop based music >>>>>>>>>creation, and it's more of an overall perfoming workstation, >>>>>>>>>with separate channels and assignable parts and such for >>>>>>>>>performing, the tyros and psr just have the main voice, 1 or 2 >>>>>>>>>layers that you can add, and a left hand split along with the styles. >>>>>>>>>The motif for example can have 4 separate keyboard zones or 4 >>>>>>>>>layers (probably more in the xf and xs), you can use arps with >>>>>>>>>the voices (short musical loops), and you can even use the >>>>>>>>>pattern mode to create a 16 track part or such to use in >>>>>>>>>performances. It also has many more effects than the tyros and >>>>>>>>>more advanced routing, as it's meant for the studio musician >>>>>>>>>and the live gigging musician as well. >>>>>>>>>But if you're using the tyros in studio or for small >>>>>>>>>performances, the tyros should be fine, though because of it's >>>>>>>>>different layout and such it'll be harder to get help, since >>>>>>>>>most people on this list at least use the motif line. The good >>>>>>>>>thing about the tyros and psr navigation system is that it >>>>>>>>>stays constant and once you learn it you can get around most of >>>>>>>>>those >> keyboards. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>HTH, D!J!X! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: >>>>>>>>><<mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:moaccess-bounce@f >>>>>>>>>re >>>>>>>>>e >>>>>>>>>lists.org><mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>moaccess-bounce >>>>>>>>>@f >>>>>>>>>r >>>>>>>>>eelists.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >>>>>>>>>On Behalf Of Ben Humphreys >>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:52 PM >>>>>>>>>To: >>>>>>>>><<mailto:MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>< >>>>>>>>>ma i lto:MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>Subject: [MoAccess] Motif vs Tyros >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Hi folks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I have a question relating to accessability of the Motif vs the >>>>>>>>>Tyros. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I've heard it consistently stated that Motif is one of the best >>>>>>>>>workstations for a blind musician, presumably because so many >>>>>>>>>functions are accessible from dedicated buttons and the screen >>>>>>>>>interface is button-based, not touch-based. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>However, when I went to purchase a Motif, I was so enamored >>>>>>>>>with the even more beautiful sounds of the Tyros that I ended >>>>>>>>>up getting a Tyros 4 instead. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I figured the Yamaha Tyros interface was similar enough to >>>>>>>>>Motif that I wouldn't be at any disadvantage to a Motif user. >>>>>>>>>Tyros has lots of buttons I can label in Braille, and screen >>>>>>>>>has 10 buttons, A through J, tab keys, and 1 through 8 up / >>>>>>>>>down buttons. I'm assuming Motif is very similar. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Of course, there is no ty-access mailing list, and certain >>>>>>>>>apps, such as those from John Melas, won't work with Tyros. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>But I'm using Sonar with Cake Talking, same as I would with Motif. >>>>>>>>>And I've found a Tyros 4 Instrument Definition File so >>>>>>>>>presumably can select instruments easily using Sonar. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Which leads to my question: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Is the Motif preferred among the blind community over the Tyros >>>>>>>>>primarily because the Motif is somehow more accessable? Or is >>>>>>>>>it perhaps that the Tyros is a bit on the expensive side? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Is there some compelling reason I'd want to sell my Tyros and >>>>>>>>>get a Motif instead? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Thanks for your help, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Ben >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>You received this message because you're subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>MoAccess e-mail list. >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for >>>>>>>>>the MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. >>>>>>>>><<//www.freelists.org/list/moaccess>http://www.freelists.o >>>>>>>>>rg / list/moaccess>//www.freelists.org/list/moaccess >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>You received this message because you're subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>MoAccess e-mail list. >>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for >>>>>>>>>the MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. >>>>>>>>><//www.freelists.org/list/moaccess>http://www.freelists.or >>>>>>>>>g/ >>>>>>>>>l >>>>>>>>>ist/moaccess >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>You received this message because you're subscribed to the >>>>>>>MoAccess e-mail list. >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for >>>>>>>the MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. >>>>>>><//www.freelists.org/list/moaccess>//www.freelists.org/ >>>>>>>li >>>>>>>s >>>>>>>t/moaccess >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you're subscribed to the MoAccess >>>> e-mail list. >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for the >>>> MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/moaccess >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you're subscribed to the MoAccess >>> e-mail list. >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for the >>> MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. >>> //www.freelists.org/list/moaccess >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you're subscribed to the MoAccess >>> e-mail list. >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for the >>> MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. >>> //www.freelists.org/list/moaccess >> >> -- >> You received this message because you're subscribed to the MoAccess >> e-mail list. >> To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for the >> MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. >> //www.freelists.org/list/moaccess >> >> -- >> You received this message because you're subscribed to the MoAccess >> e-mail list. >> To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for the >> MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. >> //www.freelists.org/list/moaccess >> > > >-- >Vince Mistretta >Call me at 561-234-7631 >Skype Name: vin5451 -- You received this message because you're subscribed to the MoAccess e-mail list. To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for the MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. //www.freelists.org/list/moaccess -- You received this message because you're subscribed to the MoAccess e-mail list. To unsubscribe, change your list options, or view archives for the MoAccess list, please use the FreeLists page. //www.freelists.org/list/moaccess