A problem I have with FS as a software developer and for that matter with the entire screen reader industry is that no data bases are available from vendors stating accessibility levels for particular software development packages and versions with screen reader versions. To the best of my knowledge nobody anywhere among the Federal employers in America has any such data base either or is maintaining such a data base. Your manager wants development with package x and version y with screen reader z good luck knowing or being able to figure out how far you'll ever actually get through the project.
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, David Poehlman wrote:
Hi all, I saw that jaws 9 played a nasty trick on me while I was writing the message the the one below responds to and I've corrected it for readability. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Moore" <coasterfreak88@xxxxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:38 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Fwd: Microsoft office 2008 for macintosh. please read this I also heard today that MS would not make another version of Office for the Mac after 08. On 1/23/08, David Poehlman <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:All well and good, but if ms were doing it right in the first place, the screen readers wouldnot have to jump through any hoops to make it work even if the beginning of the solution comes from ms.If you look at most of the jaws scripts, you find out in a hurry that many have not been updated since the beginning of time and that was before microsoft started throwing bones.> ----- Original Message -----From: "Travis Siegel" <windowbridge@xxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:57 AM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Fwd: Microsoft office 2008 for macintosh. please read this This is the *only* message I'll send on this topic, because it disgusts me just too much and I don't wish to get carried away. Saying that fs works their bottoms off to make ms products accessible is like saying that the subway engineeres work their fingers to the bone making their trains accessible. What fs does, is to claim ms improvements as fs upgrades. I.E. ms adds a new api for accessing this or that, fs adds a script to jaws to use that api, then announces to the whole world that now jaws works with so much more software, when in actuallity all they did was wrap something that already exists into a new layer, and called it their own. There are so many examples of this I can't even count them all. Add to this the fact that for some eason (I've never figured out why/how) fs manages to find out about these apis months before the rest of the developer community does, and you've got the recipe for why fs claims they've added this or that feature before any other screen reader. I did ask them about this once, and all I got was the cold shoulder. I don't mind them saying features have been added, but when those features aren't actually added by them, but only grafted on via someone else's work, then you see why I find it irritating. I've always stated that jaws is really not a screen reader, it's a script engine that just happens to focuse on accessibility. Remove all the jaws scripts (including the ones that come with it by default) and what's left wouldn't read the startup screen of it's own product. Now, to prevent a flame war, I will add tht there's nothing wrong with tis approach, I'm just tired of seeing all the hype about what jaws supports, what it adds every release, and so on, while other screen readers who actually do real work get nothing. I've called fs technical support exactly 3 times. Each time, I've left the call no closer to a solution than I was when I called in the first place. (even in one case telling me what I was having happen was impossible) Sorry, it's not impossible if it's happening folks. So, there's my entire seminar on the topic, do what you like with it. On Jan 23, 2008, at 6:47 AM, Shaun Jones wrote:Yeah, Microsoft isn't accessible, JAWS is. The FS guys have a product that needs to work on the surface, so they work their bottoms off to do this in order to sell JAWS and other products. If Windows has a problem FS has to wait until Microshaft fixes it before FS can begin work on the problem. On Jan 22, 2008, at 8:32 PM, David Poehlman wrote:Microsoft has been shamming the assistive technology community for years and throwing money around like it's watter to underline their point but at the end of the day, how much of microsoft is really accessible and how much of it is accessible because the little guys sweatted bullets and hacked into software and operating systems to make it happen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hess" <johnythehess@xxxxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:21 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Fwd: Microsoft office 2008 for macintosh. please read this Cheryl, you raise some very valid points and I don't have an answer for that. Perhaps in our minds it's too late but in my opinion any opportunity we have to share our concerns is a valid one. If anyone knows about the need for accessibility it is certainly Microsoft. They have made changes in windows apps to accommodate this need. the name "Microsoft accessibility" says it all doesn't it? On Jan 22, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Cheryl Homiak wrote:I'm sorry but this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Is Microsoft trying to say they are in the dark about what the problems are and need us to tell them about it? The developers were certainly able to turn on voiceover and see what the issues were. Had they asked us for this feedback before 08 was released I could see it but why now when the cow is already out of the barn so to speak? I could also understand it had it not ben reported on this list that office 08 was expected to be accessible. Likde David, I'm not shooting the messenger and i hope this isn't a sham but I have to say I have definite doubts.John W. Hess & Barclay the WonderLabClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Webinterface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover-- John MooreClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverUsers can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover
