[macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.

neil,  What your dictionary doesn't tell you but that you probably already 
know is that peeps is also short for a word that rimes with steeple.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neal Ewers" <neal.ewers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:50 AM
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.


Kara, the definition of the word Peeps.  The short weak cry of a young bird.
Was that supposed to be a compliment?  Too bad I can't fly.  Perhaps I'm
just too young.

Neal



-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 6:20 PM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.

   Ah, thanks Neal, glad this finally made sense for peeps!

Smiles,

Cara  :)


On Apr 23, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Neal Ewers wrote:

> Kara, you said,
> ". The cursor falls between characters . forward delete removes the
> character to its right . reverse delete removes the character to its
> left . While moving right with the arrows, VO will first speak the
> character to the right of the cursor, and then the cursor will move
> right . While moving left with left arrows, the cursor will move left,
> and then VO will speak the character to its right."
>
> Well done.  It is worth repeating again.
>
> Neal
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:58 PM
> To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.
>
>   uh, lol!  confused here!  <smile>  that's right.  And that's what I
> tried to say.  I never said you were on a character at all.  I've only
> said you are between characters.
>
>   the rule of thumb is simple.
>
> . The cursor falls between characters
> . forward delete removes the character to its right . reverse delete
> removes the character to its left . While moving right with the
> arrows, VO will first speak the character to the right of the cursor,
> and then the cursor will move right . While moving left with left
> arrows, the cursor will move left, and then VO will speak the
> character to its right
>
>   Hope this makes sense.
>
> Smiles,
>
> CQ  :)
>
>
> On Apr 23, 2008, at 6:22 AM, David Poehlman wrote:
>
>> but, if the character to the right of the cursor is in focus, why
>> then if I start typing, do I push it and why then if I press
>> backspace/delete, that is left delete or backwards delete, does the
>> character to the left get deleted?
>> It seems to me that this is a result of being between characters and
>> not on one.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cara Quinn" <Cara-Quinn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:33 PM
>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the
>> keyboard.
>>
>>
>>  Okay, I just reread this and really feel I ought to try yet again
>> for a bit more clarity!  lol!
>>
>>  Yes, the character to the right of the cursor is the one which VO
>> reads.  However, when you press right arrow, the character to the
>> cursor's right is first read, and then the cursor moves ahead or to
>> the right, one position.  so yes, in effect, the character that
>> you've just heard is now positioned to the left of the cursor, and
>> the cursor is highlighting the character ahead of it, to it's right.
>>
>>  So now, if you move left, with your left arrow key, the cursor will
>> do the opposite of what just happened, and will first move left one
>> position, and then the character to it's right, will be announced.
>> So
>> in both cases, the character  to the right of the cursor is the one
>> which is in focus.
>>
>>  As I've said before, for sighted users of Windows, this is exactly
>> the same behavior but is reinterpreted for the VI user by the Windows
>> screen reader.
>>
>> anyway, sorry for the ramblie confusion!  lol!  Just back from a long
>> / great workout and tres relaxed!  woohoo!
>>
>> Have a great night and hope this finally makes some sense!  lol!
>>
>> Laters,
>>
>> Cara Cat  :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Cara Quinn wrote:
>>
>>> David, you've actually got this reversed.  <smile>  The cursor is
>>> announcing the character just in front of it; not the one you've
>>> just left.  I.E.  in the word 'is' if you use your right arrow and
>>> read the letter 'i'  the cursor is now positioned right between the
>>> 'i'
>>> and the 's'  and is now focused on the letter 's.'
>>>
>>> So if you were to do a delete, you'd delete the letter 's.'  Does
>>> this make sense?
>>>
>>> If you then press your left arrow once, and hear the letter 'i'
>>> announced, your cursor is now just before the letter 'i,' having
>>> moved back one character.  So now, the letter 'i' is the letter that
>>> your cursor is focused on.
>>>
>>> lol!  believe it or not, my roomie, who is a windows user just
>>> confirmed this for me in MS Word, so it's quite similar.
>>>
>>> My apologies if my previous explanation was flawed.  <smile>
>>>
>>> YOu can think of it this way.  The character to the right of the
>>> cursor, is always the one that VO will read.
>>>
>>> HOpe this makes sense and again, have a great night!.
>>>
>>> Smiles,
>>>
>>> cara  :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 3:41 PM, David Truong wrote:
>>>
>>>> That might be so but it isn't helpful though.  How does one know
>>>> what character he/she is on?  I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm
>>>> just trying to get a fix cause as I say, in reality when I move my
>>>> left or right arrow keys, the character I have just left is being
>>>> repeated.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David
>>>> Poehlman
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 8:35 AM
>>>> To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the
>>>> keyboard.
>>>>
>>>> this is fixed behaviour since the cursor is never on a character
>>>> but between
>>>>
>>>> characters when it is at rest, changing direction will repeat the
>>>> character on the way back.  Note, it is helpful in that it is a
>>>> more precise way of measuring your position with respect to a
>>>> character.
>>>> This is not voice over
>>>>
>>>> behavior but voiceover reflecting the behavior of the user
>>>> interface.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "David Truong" <bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:23 PM
>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> HI,
>>>>
>>>> Talking about edit fields,  how do you set voiceover up so it
>>>> doesn't repeat the same character you have just left?  For example,
>>>> I will be moving across a document in a text editor under leopard
>>>> with my right and left arrow keys, voiceover will read d a v I d as
>>>> I am moving the right arrow key.
>>>> That's
>>>> fine but when I move the left arrow back, it will read d even
>>>> though really I am on the I and when I move the right arrow to land
>>>> on d, it will read i.
>>>> It does this through a line of text so after a while you kind've
>>>> loose where you are.  This was especially annoying when I had to
>>>> enter serial numbers for my audio hijack pro and recently VmWare
>>>> Fusion.  Please don't tell me that I have to gain more experience
>>>> with the Mac and it is something I will learn to get use to smile.
>>>> There must be a fix.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for any help on the above,
>>>>
>>>> David Truong
>>>>
>>>> EMail and Messenger:
>>>> davidtruong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> Skype:  blindboxer1967
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacob
>>>> Schmude
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 7:12 AM
>>>> To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>> Actually, arrows move you around in a wordprocessor just fine,
>>>> along with lists, and just about anywhere else you could use them
>>>> in windows. What might be happening to you is that the arrow keys
>>>> you're pressing simply aren't moving you anywhere, either because
>>>> you're not in a place you can use them or because there's no items
>>>> for them to move you to. An example of this would be on the
>>>> desktop, if you don't have any other drives plugged in or CDs in
>>>> the drive, there's only one icon there for the hard drive. Pressing
>>>> arrow keys there with only one icon present will give you no
>>>> output, since you haven't moved anywhere.
>>>> Most of what you're used to will work (tab, arrows, etc) though
>>>> they don't always work the way you'd expect from a Windows
>>>> perspective.
>>>> hth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Sara wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think I've ever used the keyboard learn mode with Jaws or
>>>>> Window-Eyes.
>>>>> I think the only reason I'd use it with a mac is because I can't
>>>>> seem to just press the arrow keys to navigate around. Somebody
>>>>> please correct me if I am understanding this wrong, but from
>>>>> what I
>>>>> have read so far, arrow keys get a blind person nowhere. How do
>>>>> people edit text in a word processor? Do you need to use control
>>>>> option with all arrow keys all the time? I know you can lock them
>>>>> and that would help but just want to clarify. What about with the
>>>>> numpad? Can those keys be used instead of control option arrows to
>>>>> move around and have text read? I think I am missing something.
>>>>> It's
>>>>> probably a lot easier than it sounds. smile Sara
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Truong"
>>>>> <bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:50 PM
>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sara,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trust me, it was the first command I drummed into my head.  You
>>>>>> got to love keyboard learn mode on any screen reader.  It is a
>>>>>> godsend.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sara
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 4:31 AM
>>>>>> To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks people! Sounds like a command I'll be using a lot
>>>>>> tomorrow.
>>>>>> lol
>>>>>> Sara
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Poehlman"
>>>> <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:23 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> vo keys-k turns on keyboard help and what's really cool about it
>>>>>>> is that it even tells you what all the keys do, not just vo
>>>>>>> keys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Reedy"
>>>>>>> <WA9DRO@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:20 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Learning the keyboard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Learning the Keyboard can be done with out interfearing with
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pressing VO keys-k will cause Voiceover to speak the name of
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>> key and if you press a combination of keys, Voiceover will tell
>>>>>>> you what that combination of keys will do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Press escape to stop this function.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keith Reedy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage.
>>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com
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>>>>
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