Hey again Neal, -just reread your note, and yes, that sounds like the correct behavior. I.E. you'll be deleting the character to the right of the cursor. This would happen on both the Mac and PC. YOu delete what's to the right of the cursor and backspace would delete what's to the left.
What seems to be happening, as I'd mentioned, is that while moving right in Windows, the screen reader is reading the character after the cursor is moved, whereas VO reads it before the cursor is moved. While moving left, both platforms read the same.
So, on Windows, with the word 'is' with the cursor starting out just to the left of the letter 'i,' if you move right, you'll hear 's' rather than 'i' and with Mac, you'd hear 'i.' Is this what you meant? In both cases, if you did a forward delete, you'd be removing the letter 's' and a backspace would remove the letter 'i.'
I think I'll just start saying forward delete or reverse delete to eliminate confusion, partially for myself too! lol!
Anyway, I'm getting sleepy so will bale on this for now, <smile> so hope you two are having a nice one and catch ya on the flippers!…
Smiles, CQ :) On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:14 PM, Neal Ewers wrote:
Kara, I'll have to do more playing with this. I just had my sighted wifelook at MS Word and when I was positioned before the letter "I" on thescreen and pressed delete, the I was deleted, and not the S. We tried thiswith and without JAWS and what she saw was no different. Don'tmisunderstand my motives here. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I want toget to bottom of the very hard to explain little oddity. Have a good evening. Neal -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:43 PM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.Actually I am, as I've just verified it with my sighted roomie to makesure, yet again! lol! What I was referring to though, is the way thecursor behaves for a sighted user, and, as I've mentioned, this behavior isaltered for the VI user; thus the behavior you mention. Apologies once again for any confusion. Have a great night!. Smiles, Cara :) On Mac, as in Windows, pressing the On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:16 PM, Neal Ewers wrote:Hi, you're right with respect to the Mac, but not with respect to Windows. In Windows, if you arrow to a character and press delete, the character you last heard when arrowing will be deleted. Neal -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:52 PM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.David, you've actually got this reversed. <smile> The cursor is announcing the character just in front of it; not the one you've just left.I.E. in the word 'is' if you use your right arrow and read the letter'i'the cursor is now positioned right between the 'i' and the 's' and isnow focused on the letter 's.' So if you were to do a delete, you'd delete the letter 's.' Does this make sense? If you then press your left arrow once, and hear the letter 'i'announced, your cursor is now just before the letter 'i,' having movedback one character. So now, the letter 'i' is the letter that your cursor is focused on. lol! believe it or not, my roomie, who is a windows user just confirmed this for me in MS Word, so it's quite similar. My apologies if my previous explanation was flawed. <smile> YOu can think of it this way. The character to the right of the cursor, is always the one that VO will read. HOpe this makes sense and again, have a great night!. Smiles, cara :) On Apr 22, 2008, at 3:41 PM, David Truong wrote:That might be so but it isn't helpful though. How does one know whatcharacter he/she is on? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm justtrying to get a fix cause as I say, in reality when I move my left orright arrow keys, the character I have just left is being repeated. -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Poehlman Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 8:35 AM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard. this is fixed behaviour since the cursor is never on a character but between characters when it is at rest, changing direction will repeat the character on the way back. Note, it is helpful in that it is a more precise way of measuring your position with respect to a character. This is not voice overbehavior but voiceover reflecting the behavior of the user interface.----- Original Message ----- From: "David Truong" <bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:23 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard. HI,Talking about edit fields, how do you set voiceover up so it doesn't repeat the same character you have just left? For example, I will be moving across a document in a text editor under leopard with my right and left arrow keys, voiceover will read d a v I d as I am moving theright arrow key. That's fine but when I move the left arrow back, it will read d even thoughreally I am on the I and when I move the right arrow to land on d, itwill read i. It does this through a line of text so after a while you kind've loose where you are. This was especially annoying when I had to enter serial numbers for my audio hijack pro and recently VmWare Fusion.Please don't tell me that I have to gain more experience with the Macand it is something I will learn to get use to smile. There must be a fix. Thanks in advance for any help on the above, David Truong EMail and Messenger: davidtruong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Skype: blindboxer1967 -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacob SchmudeSent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 7:12 AM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard. Hi Actually, arrows move you around in a wordprocessor just fine, along with lists, and just about anywhere else you could use them inwindows. What might be happening to you is that the arrow keys you're pressing simply aren't moving you anywhere, either because you're notin a place you can use them or because there's no items for them tomove you to. An example of this would be on the desktop, if you don'thave any other drives plugged in or CDs in the drive, there's only one icon there for the hard drive. Pressing arrow keys there with only one icon present will give you no output, since you haven't moved anywhere. Most of what you're used to will work (tab, arrows, etc) though they don't always work the way you'd expect from a Windows perspective. hth On Apr 22, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Sara wrote:I don't think I've ever used the keyboard learn mode with Jaws or Window-Eyes. I think the only reason I'd use it with a mac is because I can't seem to just press the arrow keys to navigate around. Somebody please correct me if I am understanding this wrong, but from what I have read so far, arrow keys get a blind person nowhere. How do people edit text in a word processor? Do you need to use control option with all arrow keys all the time? I know you can lock them and that would help but just want to clarify. What about with the numpad? Can those keys be used instead of control option arrows tomove around and have text read? I think I am missing something. It'sprobably a lot easier than it sounds. smile Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Truong" <bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxTo: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.Hi Sara,Trust me, it was the first command I drummed into my head. You got to love keyboard learn mode on any screen reader. It is a godsend.-----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sara Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 4:31 AM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard. Thanks people! Sounds like a command I'll be using a lot tomorrow. lol Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Poehlman"<david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxTo: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.vo keys-k turns on keyboard help and what's really cool about it is that it even tells you what all the keys do, not just vo keys. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Reedy" <WA9DRO@xxxxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:20 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Learning the keyboard. Learning the Keyboard can be done with out interfearing with your work. Pressing VO keys-k will cause Voiceover to speak the name of each key and if you press a combination of keys, Voiceover will tell you what that combination of keys will do. Press escape to stop this function. Keith ReedyClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email tomacvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwith 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover--- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinnClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at 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