[macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.

  • From: Cara Quinn <Cara-Quinn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:47:05 -0700

Hey again Neal, -just reread your note, and yes, that sounds like the correct behavior. I.E. you'll be deleting the character to the right of the cursor. This would happen on both the Mac and PC. YOu delete what's to the right of the cursor and backspace would delete what's to the left.


What seems to be happening, as I'd mentioned, is that while moving right in Windows, the screen reader is reading the character after the cursor is moved, whereas VO reads it before the cursor is moved. While moving left, both platforms read the same.

So, on Windows, with the word 'is' with the cursor starting out just to the left of the letter 'i,' if you move right, you'll hear 's' rather than 'i' and with Mac, you'd hear 'i.' Is this what you meant? In both cases, if you did a forward delete, you'd be removing the letter 's' and a backspace would remove the letter 'i.'

I think I'll just start saying forward delete or reverse delete to eliminate confusion, partially for myself too! lol!

Anyway, I'm getting sleepy so will bale on this for now, <smile> so hope you two are having a nice one and catch ya on the flippers!…

Smiles,

CQ  :)


On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:14 PM, Neal Ewers wrote:

Kara, I'll have to do more playing with this. I just had my sighted wife
look at MS Word and when I was positioned before the letter "I" on the
screen and pressed delete, the I was deleted, and not the S. We tried this
with and without JAWS and what she saw was no different.  Don't
misunderstand my motives here. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I want to
get to bottom of the very hard to explain little oddity.

Have a good evening.

Neal



-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 10:43 PM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.

Actually I am, as I've just verified it with my sighted roomie to make
sure, yet again!  lol!  What I was referring to though, is the way the
cursor behaves for a sighted user, and, as I've mentioned, this behavior is
altered for the VI user; thus the behavior you mention.

Apologies once again for any confusion.

Have a great night!.

Smiles,

Cara  :)



  On Mac, as in Windows, pressing the


On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:16 PM, Neal Ewers wrote:

Hi, you're right with respect to the Mac, but not with respect to
Windows.
In Windows, if you arrow to a character and press delete, the
character you last heard when arrowing will be deleted.

Neal



-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:52 PM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.

 David, you've actually got this reversed.  <smile>  The cursor is
announcing the character just in front of it; not the one you've just
left.
I.E. in the word 'is' if you use your right arrow and read the letter
'i'
the cursor is now positioned right between the 'i' and the 's' and is
now focused on the letter 's.'

 So if you were to do a delete, you'd delete the letter 's.'  Does
this make sense?

 If you then press your left arrow once, and hear the letter 'i'
announced, your cursor is now just before the letter 'i,' having moved
back one character.  So now, the letter 'i' is the letter that your
cursor is focused on.

 lol!  believe it or not, my roomie, who is a windows user just
confirmed this for me in MS Word, so it's quite similar.

My apologies if my previous explanation was flawed.  <smile>

 YOu can think of it this way.  The character to the right of the
cursor, is always the one that VO will read.

 HOpe this makes sense and again, have a great night!.

Smiles,

cara  :)


On Apr 22, 2008, at 3:41 PM, David Truong wrote:

That might be so but it isn't helpful though. How does one know what
character he/she is on?  I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just
trying to get a fix cause as I say, in reality when I move my left or
right arrow keys, the character I have just left is being repeated.

-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David
Poehlman
Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 8:35 AM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the
keyboard.

this is fixed behaviour since the cursor is never on a character but
between

characters when it is at rest, changing direction will repeat the
character on the way back.  Note, it is helpful in that it is a more
precise way of measuring your position with respect to a character.
This is not voice over

behavior but voiceover reflecting the behavior of the user interface.


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Truong" <bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:23 PM
Subject: [macvoiceover] Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.


HI,

Talking about edit fields, how do you set voiceover up so it doesn't repeat the same character you have just left? For example, I will be moving across a document in a text editor under leopard with my right and left arrow keys, voiceover will read d a v I d as I am moving the
right arrow key.
That's
fine but when I move the left arrow back, it will read d even though
really I am on the I and when I move the right arrow to land on d, it
will read i.
It does this through a line of text so after a while you kind've
loose where you are.  This was especially annoying when I had to
enter serial numbers for my audio hijack pro and recently VmWare
Fusion.
Please don't tell me that I have to gain more experience with the Mac
and it is something I will learn to get use to smile.  There must be
a fix.

Thanks in advance for any help on the above,

David Truong

EMail and Messenger:
davidtruong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Skype:  blindboxer1967

-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacob Schmude
Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 7:12 AM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.

Hi
Actually, arrows move you around in a wordprocessor just fine, along
with lists, and just about anywhere else you could use them in
windows. What might be happening to you is that the arrow keys you're pressing simply aren't moving you anywhere, either because you're not
in a place you can use them or because there's no items for them to
move you to. An example of this would be on the desktop, if you don't
have any other drives plugged in or CDs in the drive, there's only
one icon there for the hard drive. Pressing arrow keys there with
only one icon present will give you no output, since you haven't
moved anywhere.
Most of what you're used to will work (tab, arrows, etc) though they
don't always work the way you'd expect from a Windows perspective.
hth



On Apr 22, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Sara wrote:

I don't think I've ever used the keyboard learn mode with Jaws or
Window-Eyes.
I think the only reason I'd use it with a mac is because I can't
seem to just press the arrow keys to navigate around. Somebody
please correct me if I am understanding this wrong, but from what I
have read so far, arrow keys get a blind person nowhere. How do
people edit text in a word processor? Do you need to use control
option with all arrow keys all the time? I know you can lock them
and that would help but just want to clarify. What about with the
numpad? Can those keys be used instead of control option arrows to
move around and have text read? I think I am missing something. It's
probably a lot easier than it sounds. smile Sara
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Truong"
<bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:50 PM
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.


Hi Sara,

Trust me, it was the first command I drummed into my head. You got to love keyboard learn mode on any screen reader. It is a godsend.
-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sara
Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 4:31 AM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.

Thanks people! Sounds like a command I'll be using a lot tomorrow.
lol
Sara
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Poehlman"
<david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.


vo keys-k turns on keyboard help and what's really cool about it
is that it even tells you what all the keys do, not just vo keys.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Reedy"
<WA9DRO@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:20 PM
Subject: [macvoiceover] Learning the keyboard.


Learning the Keyboard can be done with out interfearing with your
work.

Pressing VO keys-k will cause Voiceover to speak the name of each
key and if you press a combination of keys, Voiceover will tell
you what that combination of keys will do.

Press escape to stop this function.

Keith Reedy

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