[mac4theblind] Re: help on help!

  • From: David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 07:46:40 -0500

actually, the default is to hace all the cursors connected except the mouse and 
vo.  This is the best way to leave it.

On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:

Point taken. So right now I have the VO cursor following the keyboard cursor 
and the keyboard cursor following the VO cursor. I have the insertion pointer 
and VO cursor disconnected and the mouse pointer and VO cursors are also 
disconnected. Is this the way to start?
On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:34 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:

> mouse should ignore vo.
> as to why the commanders are available, first, we are trying to get at the 
> heart of your issue.  Second, they serve purposes which you will understand 
> more clearly after you gain some experience with the mac os.  It is quite a 
> bit different from windows although there are many things that seem similar.
> 
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
> 
> Why should this be so? What is the point of having these commander features 
> if they interfere with "normal" functions? I also have all the default 
> tracking (VoiceOver, mouse and keyboard). Should I have all those functioning 
> independently of each other?
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:21 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
> 
>> I have also tried with the keyboard commander and num-pad commanders off 
>> with the same non-results. So it is the same with or without quick-nap, 
>> keyboard or num-pad commanders. Is there a way of repairing or reinstalling 
>> safari? VoiceOver? Is there a way of resetting either of these to their 
>> default settings? Maybe I've mis-configured one or the other into garbage.
>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 8:20 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>> 
>>> I wonder if somehow you are triggering quick  nave?  press the left and 
>>> right arrow keys together to toggle quick nave.  make sure it is turned off 
>>> before you go click show.
>>> 
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:17 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No, this isn't working on my system at this time. I have had this work in 
>>> the not too distant past but it isn't working now. 
>>> 
>>> Is safari the only browser that works under the Mac OS with voiceover?
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:02 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>> 
>>>> go right arrow after clicking show.
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Weird and frustrating! In detail…
>>>> 
>>>> 1. I select the link "voiceover basics". This takes me to a content list 
>>>> with seven items. I can either navigate to one of those links (lets say 
>>>> the "selecting a single item" link) or open the contents list by 
>>>> interacting with it and then arrowing down to the link. In either case, 
>>>> the result is the same. A list of "show" clickable items appears which 
>>>> when clicked on does not display text information but only changes the 
>>>> "show" option to a "hide" option.
>>>> 
>>>> The VO-shift-up arrow WILL stop interacting with the current item every 
>>>> time. I've also used the quick nab left-down arrow and the num-pad #7. The 
>>>> problem is not with the interaction. The problem is that the explanatory 
>>>> text never appears… or maybe it does but I don't know where. 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm going to check with the Apple Accessibility folks and see what they 
>>>> can add to the mix.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks to you and all for all of your help so far.
>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:35 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> looking at this again, something weird is going on here because are 
>>>>> describing something you are interacting with and vu-shift-up arrow 
>>>>> should stop interacting.  go right and left arrow move through the text.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> This exploration is yielding lots of new knowledge. I've now know about 
>>>>> the quick nab feature and how to use the various combination of arrow 
>>>>> keys to control safari operations. Unfortunately, my basic original 
>>>>> problem remains. Oh well… back to the front!
>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 11:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> sorry, this is the stop interacting key and it sounded like you were 
>>>>>> interacting with something.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If I press "coo-shift-up arrow"Do you mean "command-VO-shift-up arrow"? 
>>>>>> cause if I do this it has the effect of  moving the VO cursor up.
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:33 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> press coo-shift-up arrow and then try vu-right.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> VO-left or right arrows only take me (line by line) to the top or 
>>>>>>> bottom of the object I'm interacting with. Either links to other topics 
>>>>>>> or groups. Not explanatory text.
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:04 PM, John Panniers wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you go space on the clickable item, try navigating right with the 
>>>>>>>> VO and right arrow keys.  See if that reveals anything for you.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> John D. Panniers
>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:02 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks John for the detailed clarification. I guess I did not get it 
>>>>>>>>> when David said it the first time. I can get back to the proper 
>>>>>>>>> window within the application by using the command-f2 twice. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Now I can get back to the issue I started this thread with.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So here I am in the help topic that is supposed to explain how to 
>>>>>>>>> select and deselect single and multiple items. I have here a list of 
>>>>>>>>> clickable objects that say "show" group with two items. When I 
>>>>>>>>> interact with the group, I find two clickable items within (as 
>>>>>>>>> expected). When I click on the "show" clickable, I expect to get to 
>>>>>>>>> some text or html window that explains how to do this. The only thing 
>>>>>>>>> I seem to find is that there now appears a "hide" clickable. Where do 
>>>>>>>>> I go to find the instructions for selecting or deselecting one or 
>>>>>>>>> more items? The window chooser command only gives me the "help" and 
>>>>>>>>> "utilities" child windows. Could this have something to do with the 
>>>>>>>>> navigational mode or something? 
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:40 PM, John Panniers wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The command-accent combination, which is the key below the escape 
>>>>>>>>>> key, will cycle you through open windows in an application.  
>>>>>>>>>> Command-tab cycles you through your open applications.  For the 
>>>>>>>>>> help, try the command-accent or David's suggestion of using the 
>>>>>>>>>> window chooser menu with VO-F2 twice and then using the up and down 
>>>>>>>>>> arrows to see a list of your currently open windows.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panniers
>>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:36 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> hums what is a grave key, please??
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> [malt:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tracy Duffy
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:32
>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You can also try command along with the grab key. This will move 
>>>>>>>>>>> you from
>>>>>>>>>>> window to window within an application. At least it does in Snow 
>>>>>>>>>>> leopard. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:30 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> good job david i am not on my mac and could not remember that 
>>>>>>>>>>> command
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [malt:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert Poehlman
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:27
>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> try vo-f2 twice to bring up a list of open windows.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> So, when I press command-tab twice, it doesn't bring me to the
>>>>>>>>>>> previously open help topic I left. It only switches me to the other
>>>>>>>>>>> application windows or brings me back to the same VO utilities 
>>>>>>>>>>> window.
>>>>>>>>>>> If I go to the menu and arrow down the windows options, I only see 
>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> applications window available to choose from. Is one of those other
>>>>>>>>>>> options on that windows drop-down the one I need to take me back to 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> topic I left? How does one switch to different windows within an
>>>>>>>>>>> application window?
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:00 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> try command-tab twice.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:47 AM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> First of all command tab changes your application from one to 
>>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> windows within a application.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [malt:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 08:44
>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, here is an example..
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I am currently in a help window that has . here is an even better
>>>>>>>>>>> example of not having a clue of something that should be (and needs
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> be) understood by a neophyte.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> As I am writing this message, I switch to another window where I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> working with a help topic. I switch back to this window to write
>>>>>>>>>>> something and when I use the "command-tab" hoping to return to the
>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>> window. I end up back in the VoiceOver utilities area. Not the help
>>>>>>>>>>> topic I thought I would be going to. How do I make this simple
>>>>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>>>> from one window to another without having to navigate back to the
>>>>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>>>> layer after linked layer?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the sort of thing that I never had to think about before.
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:24 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> can you give us an example?  I believe I know what you need to do
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> rather than searching through help for an item, it would speed up
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> process having an example.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It seems like the more I think I've learned, the more I know I've
>>>>>>>>>>> missed!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Right now I'm going through the VoiceOver help menu seeking areas
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> weak on and hoping to learn more. When I get to a "show" clickable
>>>>>>>>>>> object, I select it. and nothing seems to happen except that it
>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>> from a "show" to a "hide" area. Where does the related information
>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>> shown? What part of this process am I not getting?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I can freely admit that navigation and safari navigation in
>>>>>>>>>>> particular are my weakest areas. This makes learning via the
>>>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>>>> help topics slow. Does anyone know of a good tutorial for
>>>>>>>>>>> transplanted
>>>>>>>>>>> windows/internet explorer/JAWS users? I mean, there should be enough
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> us by now to have, at least, an email list that can serve as a place
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> trade and ask for information that might bore those of you for whom
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> mac environment is natural.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> /jp, mac user without papers!************
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Isaiah 2:11 Human pride will be brought down, 
>>>>>>>>>>> and human arrogance will be humbled. 
>>>>>>>>>>> Only the LORD will be exalted 
>>>>>>>>>>> on that day of judgment.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>> With His
>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ************
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>> With His
>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>> 
>>>>> ************
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ************
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>> With His
>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>> 
>>>> ************
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ************
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> with his
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>> one byte at a time
>>> 
>>> ************
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> ************
>> 
>> 
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>> 
>> 
>>  The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to 
>> their list subscription is:
>> 
>> http://www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>> 
>> The list archive is located at
>> 
>> http://www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>> 
>>  All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>> 
>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> 
> 
> ************
> 
> 
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
> 
> 
>   The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to 
> their list subscription is:
> 
> http://www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
> 
> The list archive is located at
> 
> http://www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
> 
>   All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
> 
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jonnie Appleseed
> With His
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> Touching The Internet
> Reducing Technology's disabilities
> One Byte At A Tie
> 
> ************
> 
> 
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
> 
> 
>    The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to 
> their list subscription is:
> 
> http://www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
> 
> The list archive is located at
> 
> http://www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
> 
>    All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
> 
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 

************


You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.


    The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to 
their list subscription is:

http://www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind

The list archive is located at

http://www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/

    All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:

john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


-- 
Jonnie Appleseed
With His
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
Touching The Internet
Reducing Technology's disabilities
One Byte At A Tie

************


You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.


     The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to 
their list subscription is:

http://www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind

The list archive is located at

http://www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/

     All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:

john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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