[mac4theblind] Re: help on help!

It doesn't seem to matter whether or not quick-nav is on or off. I had tried it 
both ways and always I get the same results. I merely succeed in changing the 
"show" clickable to a "hide" clickable with no explanatory text showing up 
anywhere I can find. I also have the keyboard commander and num-pad commander 
both on. I'm going to try it out with both of those off as well and see if 
there are any variations in the results.
On Mar 5, 2012, at 8:20 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:

> I wonder if somehow you are triggering quick  nav?  press the left and right 
> arrow keys together to toggle quick nav.  make sure it is turned off before 
> you vo click show.
> 
> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:17 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> No, this isn't working on my system at this time. I have had this work in the 
> not too distant past but it isn't working now. 
> 
> Is safari the only browser that works under the Mac OS with voiceover?
> On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:02 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
> 
>> vo right arrow after clicking show.
>> 
>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>> 
>> Weird and frustrating! In detail…
>> 
>> 1. I select the link "voiceover basics". This takes me to a content list 
>> with seven items. I can either navigate to one of those links (lets say the 
>> "selecting a sigle item" link) or open the contents list by interacting with 
>> it and then arrowing down to the link. In either case, the result is the 
>> same. A list of "show" clickable items appears which when clicked on does 
>> not display text information but only changes the "show" option to a "hide" 
>> option.
>> 
>> The VO-shift-up arrow WILL stop interacting with the current item every 
>> time. I've also used the quick nab left-down arrow and the num-pad #7. The 
>> problem is not with the interaction. The problem is that the explanatory 
>> text never appears… or maybe it does but I don't know where. 
>> 
>> I'm going to check with the Apple Accessibility folks and see what they can 
>> add to the mix.
>> 
>> Thanks to you and all for all of your help so far.
>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:35 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>> 
>>> looking at this again, something weird is going on here because are 
>>> describing something you are interacting with and vo-shift-up arrow should 
>>> stop interacting.  vo right and left arrow move through the text.
>>> 
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>> 
>>> This exploration is yielding lots of new knowledge. I've now know about the 
>>> quick nab feature and how to use the various combination of arrow keys to 
>>> control safari operations. Unfortunately, my basic original problem 
>>> remains. Oh well… back to the front!
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 11:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>> 
>>>> sorry, this is the stop interacting key and it sounded like you were 
>>>> interacting with something.
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> If I press "cvo-shift-up arrow"Do you mean "command-VO-shift-up arrow"? 
>>>> cause if I do this it has the effect of  moving the VO cursor up.
>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:33 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> press cvo-shift-up arrow and then try vo-right.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> VO-left or right arrows only take me (line by line) to the top or bottom 
>>>>> of the object I'm interacting with. Either links to other topics or 
>>>>> groups. Not explanatory text.
>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:04 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you vo space on the clickable item, try navigating right with the VO 
>>>>>> and right arrow keys.  See if that reveals anything for you.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>> Director
>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:02 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks John for the detailed clarification. I guess I did not get it 
>>>>>>> when David said it the first time. I can get back to the proper window 
>>>>>>> within the application by using the command-f2 twice. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now I can get back to the issue I started this thread with.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So here I am in the help topic that is supposed to explain how to 
>>>>>>> select and deselect single and multiple items. I have here a list of 
>>>>>>> clickable objects that say "show" group with two items. When I interact 
>>>>>>> with the group, I find two clickable items within (as expected). When I 
>>>>>>> click on the "show" clickable, I expect to get to some text or html 
>>>>>>> window that explains how to do this. The only thing I seem to find is 
>>>>>>> that there now appears a "hide" clickable. Where do I go to find the 
>>>>>>> instructions for selecting or deselecting one or more items? The window 
>>>>>>> chooser command only gives me the "help" and "utilities" child windows. 
>>>>>>> Could this have something to do with the navigational mode or 
>>>>>>> something? 
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:40 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The command-accent combination, which is the key below the escape key, 
>>>>>>>> will cycle you through open windows in an application.  Command-tab 
>>>>>>>> cycles you through your open applications.  For the help, try the 
>>>>>>>> command-accent or David's suggestion of using the window chooser menu 
>>>>>>>> with VO-F2 twice and then using the up and down arrows to see a list 
>>>>>>>> of your currently open windows.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:36 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> hummmm what is a grave key, please??
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tracy Duffy
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:32
>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You can also try command along with the grav key. This will move you 
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> window to window within an application. At least it does in 
>>>>>>>>> Snowleopard. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:30 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> good job david i am not on my mac and could not remember that command
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert Poehlman
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:27
>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> try vo-f2 twice to bring up a list of open windows.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So, when I press command-tab twice, it doesn't bring me to the
>>>>>>>>> previously open help topic I left. It only switches me to the other
>>>>>>>>> application windows or brings me back to the same VO utilities window.
>>>>>>>>> If I go to the menu and arrow down the windows options, I only see one
>>>>>>>>> applications window available to choose from. Is one of those other
>>>>>>>>> options on that windows drop-down the one I need to take me back to 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> topic I left? How does one switch to different windows within an
>>>>>>>>> application window?
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:00 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> try command-tab twice.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:47 AM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> First of all command tab changes your application from one to another
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> windows within a application.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 08:44
>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Ok, here is an example..
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I am currently in a help window that has . here is an even better
>>>>>>>>> example of not having a clue of something that should be (and needs
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be) understood by a neophyte.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> As I am writing this message, I switch to another window where I'm
>>>>>>>>> working with a help topic. I switch back to this window to write
>>>>>>>>> something and when I use the "command-tab" hoping to return to the
>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>> window. I end up back in the VoiceOver utilities area. Not the help
>>>>>>>>> topic I thought I would be going to. How do I make this simple
>>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>> from one window to another without having to navigate back to the
>>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>> layer after linked layer?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This is the sort of thing that I never had to think about before.
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:24 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> can you give us an example?  I believe I know what you need to do
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> rather than searching through help for an item, it would speed up
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> process having an example.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It seems like the more I think I've learned, the more I know I've
>>>>>>>>> missed!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Right now I'm going through the VoiceOver help menu seeking areas
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> weak on and hoping to learn more. When I get to a "show" clickable
>>>>>>>>> object, I select it. and nothing seems to happen except that it
>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>> from a "show" to a "hide" area. Where does the related information
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> shown? What part of this process am I not getting?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I can freely admit that navigation and safari navigation in
>>>>>>>>> particular are my weakest areas. This makes learning via the
>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>> help topics slow. Does anyone know of a good tutorial for
>>>>>>>>> transplanted
>>>>>>>>> windows/internet explorer/JAWS users? I mean, there should be enough
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> us by now to have, at least, an email list that can serve as a place
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> trade and ask for information that might bore those of you for whom
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> mac environment is natural.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> /jp, mac user without papers!************
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
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>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
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>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
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>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>> http://www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Isaiah 2:11 Human pride will be brought down, 
>>>>>>>>> and human arrogance will be humbled. 
>>>>>>>>> Only the LORD will be exalted 
>>>>>>>>> on that day of judgment.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> ************
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>> With His
>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>> 
>>>>> ************
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ************
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>> With His
>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>> 
>>>> ************
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> ************
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> With His
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> Touching The Internet
>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>> 
>>> ************
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> ************
>> 
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>> 
>> -- 
>> Jonnie Appleseed
>> With His
>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>> Touching The Internet
>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>> One Byte At A Tie
>> 
>> ************
>> 
>> 
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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> 
> ************
> 
> 
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> their list subscription is:
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>    All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
> 
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jonnie Appleseed
> with his
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> reducing technology's disabilities
> one byte at a time
> 
> ************
> 
> 
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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> 

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