[lit-ideas] Re: fiction or non

  • From: "Mike Geary" <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 02:42:00 -0600

Irene: 

I do know that no self respecting American man will ever go
without a tee shirt under a shirt (in fact that's one of the things air
marshals look for to distinguish non-American men)

Huh??? I've never worn a tee shirt under a shirt in my life and no one I know does. Every time I think I've found some gender distinction, a second's reflection brings to mind as many exceptions to the distinction as evidence for it. There are some gender differences, I believe, but nailing them down seems awfully allusive. To me, men generally seem more dogmatic than women, more pretentious than women, more macho than women -- meaning they're more desperate to prove they're men than women are to prove they're women. I'm smart enough not to detail the failings of women -- but then, there are none -- right, guys?

Mike Geary
Memphis


----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: fiction or non


[Original Message]
From: Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 1/12/2006 11:10:10 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: fiction or non

Maybe someone is...and we don't know...


That's so interesting, Paul just said the same thing. I'm clueless. I'm
not seeing anything like that. Am I that obtuse or is male/female just not
that noticeable? I'm also having a hard time picking up the tone of this
post. Curmudgeonly is not a problem if that's what it is. Been there done
that lots of times myself.


In what way was Andy 'off'?


The word "off" is Paul's word. And I think it was a fair description.
There were a lot of things that Andy didn't know. For example, in the very
beginning, Judy asked Andy about Man Union. Andy was clueless. Later I
asked my husband if he ever heard of Man Union and he yeah, of course, the
Manchester Union, the English ... Sports analogies were a problem. Stuff
like that. but nobody ever asked me
about tee shirts underneath shirts. Durn.


He was curmudgeonly and opinionated and he seemed to have a lot of time
on his hands.


Well, that's because he was curmudgeonly. Always civilized though, and not
that much time. It doesn't take long to answer a post.


Sounds like a lot of men I know...

And do tell us (me) what working at being 'masculine' feels like. 


See above.


Did 
you have to wear a hard hat? Did you have to wear blinders (might
explain some of Andy's attitudes...)? Just kidding, guys...(yeah right).



Actually, Andy's opinions were all based in fact.  There were no opinions
that were just opinions.  All the politics, the economics, the history.
None of that was opinions.  It was all facts.  The religion, yes, that was
opinion, but more like point of view.



On a slightly (very slightly) more serious note, isn't it odd that it's
acceptable for little girls to be tomboys but utterly unacceptable for
little boys to play at being girls.


Oh, definitely. That's why I don't expect any takers for guys to try being
girls. Girls are guys half the time anyway, the clothes, the careers.
Househusbands are still pretty much an oddity.


Who makes these things up, anyway?


I guess all the non-feminists in the world.  If the world were run by
feminists, guys would wear/do what they want and so would girls.


Ursula (feeling curmudgeonly herself) 


Hope you're feeling better.




in North Bay

Andy Amago wrote:

>>[Original Message]
>>From: Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Date: 1/12/2006 7:42:49 PM
>>Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: fiction or non
>>
>>Has anyone else noticed the 'feminization' of Andy?
>>Just that tiny bit more playfulness....
>>-------------------
>>I've kept this email in abeyance for 5 minutes -- not sure I like the
>>conflation (or implied exclusivity) of feminine and playful...
>>so many of you guys are so wonderfully playful. But there is something
>>different -- something that keeps reminding me that Andy is now
>>female. I'm wondering if Andy notices...
>>Ursula
>>
>>
>>
>
>It's interesting that you pick that up. I think it's a bigger issue. I
>wondered about it myself. I think there is a difference between a male
>approach and a female one, at least based on my experience in the Other
>Dimension Simulator. I had to work at being "masculine", or at least my
>interpretation of masculine. It was easier for me because Andy, was, >you
>know, "off", but not too off. I did notice that the guys especially in
the
>beginning were hard on Andy. I think it would be fun if someone else
here
>would volunteer to play the other sex. Of course it would be a little
>different since we'd know. I don't know that we'd learn anything, but >it
>might be fun. Nah, dumb idea. Forget it.
>
>
>
>
>
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