[lit-ideas] disces tv qvidem a principe hvivs aetatis philosophorum & disces qvamdiv voles


Okay, now I appeal to authority, and Cicero does say it's a discipline, so
I buy that!


disces tu quidem a principe hujus aetatis philosophorum, et disces quamdiu
voles, Cic. Off. 1, 1, 2


In a message dated 6/28/2009 12:50:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wokshevs@xxxxxx writes:
JL replies to my transcendental claims regarding the  nature of a
discipline with
offerings of historical learning.

Okay --  I'll go etymological now.

[a. F. discipline (OF. also dece-, dese-,  desce-, 11th c. in Hatz.-Darm.),
ad. L. disciplna instruction of disciples,  tuition, for discipulina, f.
discipulus pupil, DISCIPLE.
Etymologically, discipline, as pertaining to the disciple or scholar, is
antithetical to doctrine, the property of the doctor or teacher; hence, in
the  history of the words, doctrine is more concerned with abstract theory,
and  discipline with practice or exercise.]
1.    a. Instruction imparted to disciples or scholars; teaching;
learning; education, schooling. Obs.
1382 WYCLIF Prov. iii. 4 Thou shalt  finde grace, and good discipline [1388
teching] befor God and men.

---

I see it's discipleship.

But are you saying philosophy is the ONLY discipline?

So what makes  'discipleship' special in the case of philosophy.

"Disciple" should be avoided today. As a Gricean, I know!

Grice said, "Avoid odium theologicum; but also amor theologicus!"

---- Philosophy is the self-refuting discipline


[In OE. discipul, ad. L. "discipulus" learner, pupil, f. "discere" to
learn. In early ME. di-, deciple, a. OF. deciple, semi-popular ad. L.
discipulus. Both in OF. and ME., deciple was gradually conformed to the L.  
spelling
as disciple; ME. had occasional variants in -il, -yl, -ul.]



----

The root of this form of life must be the Roman, so here it is:

disco , dĭdĭci, 3 (

I. part. fut.: sic disciturum, etc., App. ap. Prisc. p. 887 P.), v. a.
[from the root da-, Gr. dedaôs, daênai; dak-, cf. doceo, doctus, Gr. didaskô] ,
 to learn, to learn to know, to become acquainted with, etc. (for syn. cf.:
 capio, percipio, concipio, comprehendo, intellego, cognosco, nosco,
agnosco,  animadverto, calleo, scio--very freq. in all periods and sorts of
writing).
(a). With acc.: litteras Graecas senex didici, Cic. de Sen. 8, 26 ; id. 
Tusc. 1, 13, 29: so, litteras, Plaut. Truc. 4, 2, 22 : jus civile, id. Mur. 9,
 19 ; 10, 23: litteras apud aliquem, Cic. Fam. 9, 10, 2 : dialectica ab
aliquo,  id. Ac. 2, 30, 98 : artem ab aliquo, Quint. 3, 1, 10 et saep.: aliquid
de  aliquo, Ter. Eun. 2, 2, 31 : virtutem ex me, fortunam ex aliis, Verg.
A. 12, 435  ; cf. Quint. 12, 8, 6 al.: fabularum similia, Cic. Rep. 1, 36 :
artes, id. ib.  2, 21 : palaestram, Quint. 5, 10, 121 : affectum, id. 1, 11,
2 : inde vocabula  prima, Lucr. 5, 1042 : elementa prima, Hor. S. 1, 1, 26 :
dulces querelas, Lucr.  5, 1384 ; cf. preces, Hor. Ep. 2, 1, 133 et saep.:
me peritus Discet Iber, Hor.  C. 2, 20, 20 ; cf.: quem (Augustum) didicere
Vindelici, id. ib. 4, 14, 8 : omnes  crimine ab uno, Verg. A. 2, 66 et
saep.--Pass.: dum est, unde jus civile  discatur, Cic. Verr. 2, 1, 45 ; cf. jus,
Quint. 12, 3, 9 : Crassus, quod disci  potuit de jure didicit, Cic. de Or. 2,
33, 143 : tot artibus discendis, Quint.  12, 11, 9 et saep.--
(b). With inf. or acc. and inf.: pueri qui nare discunt,  Plaut. Aul. 4, 1,
9 : rapere et clepere, Cic. Rep. 4, 5 (ap. Non. 20, 15):  Latine loqui,
Sall. J. 101, 6 : nobis ignoscere, Quint. 11, 2, 45 : assem in  partes
diducere, Hor. A. P. 326 : bene ferre magnam fortunam, id. C. 3, 27, 75  et 
saep.:
bene ubi quod consilium discimus accidisse, etc., Plaut. Ps. 2, 3, 15  :
discit, Litavicum ad sollicitandos Haeduos profectum, Caes. B. G. 7, 54 :
animadverti et didici ex tuis litteris te omnibus in rebus habuisse rationem,
ut, etc., Cic. Fam. 3, 5 ; id. Ac. 2, 30 fin.: deos didici securum agere
aevum,  Hor. S. 1, 5, 101 et saep.--
(g). With relat. clause: plures discent,  quemadmodum haec fiant, quam
quemadmodum his resistatur, Cic. Lael. 12, 41 :  quantum in Etruria belli esset,
Liv. 10, 25 : patriae quid debeat, etc., Hor. A.  P. 312 et saep.--
(d). Absol.: disces tu quidem a principe hujus aetatis  philosophorum, et
disces quamdiu voles, Cic. Off. 1, 1, 2 : didicit, i. e.  oratory, id. Brut.
71, 249 ; Caes. B. G. 6, 14, 4; Quint. 1, 12, 14 al.:  discendi aut visendi
causa maria transmittere, Cic. Rep. 1, 3 ; so, discendi  causa, id. ib. 1,
10 ; id. Off. 2, 1, 4; Caes. B. G. 6, 13 fin. al.: se ita a  patribus
majoribusque suis didicisse, ut, etc., Caes. B. G. 1, 13, 6 .  --Ellipt.: 
discebant
fidibus antiqui, sc. canere, Cic. de Sen. 8 fin. (cf.:  docere fidibus,
Cic. Fam. 9, 22, 3 : scire fidibus, Ter. Eun. 1, 5, 53  ).--
b. Transf., of inanimate subjects: manus, Plaut. Am. 1, 1, 159 : nec
varios discet mentiri lana colores, Verg. E. 4, 42 : arbores, Plin. H. N. 16
prooem.--
c. To teach = docere (late Lat., cf. manthanein, and Eng. learn):  falsa
discentes, Amm. 14, 1 .


---

But note that Cicero is not really applying it to philosophy?

It would be good to produce a conceptual analysis of why philosophy is a
discipline qua practice involving disciples.

Grice thought that philosophy involves two unities -- but so does
air-conditioning --: the longitudinal unity: the history of the 'profession',  
and
the latitudinal unity: the width and application to various  manoeuvres.

Cheers,

J. L
   Buenos Aires, Argentina -- etc.
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