I was careful in writing about what Europeans thinks to point the finger not at America or Americans but at a 'war-mongering US Government' I would have hoped you'd have picked up on that - you even included it in your quote. No doubt many Europeans think of Americans as slightly egocentric, show offs and alike, but for the most part they're sensible enough to see the difference between a government and its people. 'Look Eric,' they'd say, 'you stuffed up, you voted in the wrong guy and wrong administration. We don't like your government one jot, so just make sure you don't make the same mistake next time. Until then, count us out, we won't partake.'
I point you towards Afghanistan in which NATO countries are still battling away against the Taliban. Recognising that America was attacked on 9/11, and recognising also that the Taliban was at least partly responsible, Europe said, yes, count us in, we'll fight along side you. And they still are. Nato troops are still dying in Afghanistan Eric, or had you forgotten. But when it came to Iraq, Europe said, 'hey hold on a moment, this isn't what we signed on for. Take the Brits by all means, but leave us out. It looks to us like you're invading for economic reasons it looks like you want a piece of the oil revenues, it looks like you're empire building and we want no part of it.'
Yet now the US is in trouble in Iraq. Are you asking for help?Rather than implying that Europe is fearful of American opinion, I wrote about the lessons Europe has learned from a fair few centuries of self-destructive wars. In an effort to stop such activity they have entered into an all inclusive economic and political union that is meshing the states together rather than pushing them apart. It's a very federal, republican enterprise that you'd have thought America would have approved of. The aim is not to create an overriding European identity, but to celebrate cultural differences under one central government (at least that's my understanding).
Of course it's going to take a bit of time, but it's a worthwhile enterprise. It's mature response to sorting out the problems of past generations. Very much like the US, I'd say it's a product of the Enlightenment.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric" <mr.eric.yost@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 7:33 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: comments the DEMs must defend
Simon: Yet you can't have it both ways with regards to the relative strength of the European military. .... More than that however, the real contention seems to be that peace-loving Europe is not prepared to follow a war-mongering US government.Let's talk about what Americans want. You'd do well to listen to the criticisms of Andreas, Irene, Mike, and John for that. Americans want an end to extensive foreign involvement, want the chance to build up infrastructure, enhance education, expand civil rights, even colonize space for that matter. Americans do NOT want empire. Americans do NOT want to see their young die in order to quiet some psychotic regime run by sunstruck madmen wailing to their Mesopotamian sky god. We basically want to leave that savage waste alone ... and continue building an advanced technical infrastructure in a culture that strives to encourage human potential. That's what people want on this side of the pond. It's been so historically and is so today.You imply that Europe is afraid to build up its military because of US opinion of it. Nonsense. You don't care what the US thinks. Not really. So why should you worry about our impression of your military potential, were you to invest in improving it? We still have enough culturally in common so that Europe in general would be seen as no more threatening than France. That could change if you morph into Eurabia out of weakness.Further, if you were to share in the "war-mongering," that is, in extending global peace so that people can avoid nuclear war and genocides ... you'd lose your Nietzschean resentment, could no longer see weakness as a virtue, and would regain enough identity and pride to act rather than react to crises.Again, Americans really don't want empire. Ask any American on the list.Finally, what war critics say of the Iraqis could be said of Europe in general, that until we pull out, there'll be no incentive to stand on your own.------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
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