Eric Yost wrote: "For how do we know what the people can or cannot do well? What empirical values do we have to judge their performance against? What is our baseline? Merely the status quo? Or that which is possible?" According to the Lincoln quote, one begins with what the people need to do but can't. It is not a wholly empirical project but it is measured empirically. On Eric's 'point', there is no measurement, only ideology. That is why it is so appealing to Marxist-Leninists and their ilk. Sincerely, Phil Enns Toronto, ON ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html