[lit-ideas] Re: Yahoo! Traitors with Clinton Sidebar
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:09:52 -0400
> [Original Message]
> From: Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 9/22/2005 1:43:46 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Yahoo! Traitors with Clinton Sidebar
>
>
> > A.A. Except that Newt wound up hanging himself with his own rope
>
> Nope, like Clinton, Newt wound up hanging himself with his own penis.
>
> Newt is about as intelligent as I am. Clinton & Co. would have had him
for
> breakfast had they been political geniuses. But they were just ambitious.
>
>
**A.A. Sounds like you want a dictator, not a president.
> > A.A. You forget that he had to function in a Republican Congress. The
> > country elected Congress. That's where the mood was.
>
>
> Not when he started. But the "political genius" gave Congress away to
the
> first comer with a vision. That was blind boy Newt. Bill had no
vision,
> but, by God, he felt our pain. The pain of being without a vision. And
all
> the time he was feeling our pain, he was kissing the ass of Corporate
> America. Remember that during the campaign, Mr. Feel Your Pain felt it
> necessary to toughen up and so he left the campaign trail to travel back
to
> Arkansas to oversee the execution of functionally retarded man, Ricky Ray
> Rector. The boy was just too goddamn smart for his own good and ours.
>
**A.A. All his troubles started when he supported gay rights and abortion
in the very beginning. That's when the religious right started the right
wing conspiracy to smear him and tear him down. Unless you voted for
Kerry, beating up Clinton for what Bush did many times over is
hypocritical.
>
> > Politics is the art
> > of the possible.
>
> Leadership (i.e., political genius) is creating the possible.
>
>
**A.A. Damn, Mike, why don't you just say you want a dictator in the White
House, telling everybody what to do.
> > He worked with what he had. It's why a Democrat was even
> > elected, because he was pretty center.
>
> > George H. W. Bush lost to Clinton because of the "vision thing" --
that,
> > but primarily it was the goofy-ass Ross Perot (who did infact have a
> > vision, but of hell) -- who threw the election to Clinton by drawing
off
> > 19% of the vote, almost all of it from Bush.
> >
**A.A. Bush lost to Clinton because Bush had the smarts to know that it
takes money to run a country. He promised what he couldn't deliver, which
is cut taxes. Read my lips killed him. It's the economy stupid, remember?
> > As a moral man
> >> Clinton has always struck me as very ordinary -- venal, vain,
lecherous,
> >> ambitious -- like most of us.
> >
> >
> > A.A. I never cared about his morals. His sex life is his business unless
> > it's illegal, which it wasn't. The country was doing well, that's all
I
> > cared about.
>
> I wasn't talking about his sex life. No one, not even Ken Starr cared
about
> his sex life -- that was just dirty politics -- the dirtiest of politics.
> But his sex life was pretty pathetic, wasn't it? The most powerful man
in
> the world limited to blowjobs? C'mon. Kennedy was fucking Marilyn
Monroe.
> What a disappointment your boy was. The morals I was referring to had
more
> to do with honesty and integrity.
**A.A. You want someone who can please all the people all the time.
>
>
> > A.A. How much courage would it take you to go to work every day with an
> > independent prosecutor investigating you, and every newspaper and every
> > talk radio airwave in the country beating you to death over fabricated
> > charges? He was being accused of everything up to and including drug
> > dealing and murder.
>
> Yes, he was the victim of a vast right-wing conspiracy -- no irony
implied,
> the fascist right was out to destroy him. He had no choice but to face
up
> to those charges. It was the political courage I was referring to. The
man
> abandoned nearly every program that raised the hackles of the
Republicans.
> I do give him credit for going into Haiti and preserving democracy there,
> but then it was all very quickly forgotten. I alsogive him credit for
> sticking to his guns in the Balkans when few supported him. If only
those
> instances had been the hallmark of his presidency.
>
>
**A.A. The Republicans were in power. The president proposes, congress
disposes. A president is not a dictator. He had to work with what the
Republicans allowed him.
>
> > I heard Trent Lott on Larry King
> > Live singing Clinton's praises.
>
> Praise from a racist. Great PR. Like Newt's sweet nothings to Hillary.
>
**A.A. Praise from somebody who hated his guts, who did nothing but oppose
him. Even he was eating out of his hand. Clinton worked against
unbelievable odds.
>
> > Clinton had his eyes on the prize and none
> > of that crap existed for him. Bush is just the opposite. He needs
> > everybody to agree with him.
>
> Interesting. I'd say you've got that backwards. Clinton needs to be
loved.
> Bush doesn't give a damn, he descended from God.
>
>
A.A. Bush doesn't give a damn about the country. He throws hissy fits when
people disagree with him.
> > He gave the job to Hillary and she came up with a plan, don't
> > you remember?
>
> Oh, yes, I do remember that. He left her out there by herself to twist
> slowly in the wind.
>
>
**A.A. She's a big girl. She handled it.
> > It was rejected by the populace. I don't even remember the
> > plan now,
>
> Let me refresh your memory. The proposal mandated employers to provide
> health insurance and pay 80% of the premium costs. It guaranteed
continued
> health insurance to individuals who lost employment or changed
employment. A
> major linchpin of this proposal was regulation of the health insurance
> industry. States were required to identify one or more regional alliances
to
> serve as purchasing agents for health care insurance. Workers could
choose
> between low cost (HMO) type plans or fee for service plans. The benefits
> offered would be standardized. All workers would be pooled without
> consideration of age, gender or health status. The percentage of employee
> compensation which could be spent on health care insurance was limited.
> Although the plan attempted to build on the existing employment-based
> structure, it ultimately was defeated because of an opposition which
> included some insurers and provider organizations and most Republicans.
> Perhaps due to its complexity, the plan drew little support in the face
of
> such opposition.
>
>
**A.A. Regulation of healthcare, as stated in the above paragraph, wasn't
going to happen.
> > but I'll bet if it was put forth now it would be seen in a
> > different light. Of course, it's impossible now since we can't pay for
it
> > anymore.
>
> It was a stupid plan, tied to employers. What the fuck do employers have
to
> do with health care? But it could have been a start.
>
>
**A.A. The linchpin was regulation, government oversight. That's what
killed it. If not employers, then who? You want nationalized healthcare?
>
> > He would abandon his appointees and supporters at the first hint
> >> of opposition, among them: Joycelyn Elders his Surgeon General and Lani
> >> Guinier, nominated for Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights.
> >
> >
> > A.A. I have no comment on that. I vaguely remember Elders recommending
> > that masturbation be taught as a sexual alternative to kids to keep
STD's
> > down. It's not a bad idea, just an idea ahead of its time. We're still
> > working off of the masturbation is evil thing. I don't remember what
> > happened with Guinier. I don't know what you would have wanted him to
do.
>
> What Bust does, stand behind his people.
>
>
**A.A. Bush never appoints people more capable than he is. Then he stands
behind them, come hell and high water. Literally.
> > Overall, his administration was effective.
>
> Well, a hell of a lot better than Bush's.
>
>
> >> I opposed Clinton's support for NAFTA AND GATT.
> >
> >
> > A.A. All the former presidents supported it, Carter, Bush, Ford. Maybe
> > you
> > have a gift for international trade.
>
> I have a gift for not giving away the shop.
>
>
**A.A. It's easy to sit back and criticize.
>
>
> > I think his dismantling of
> >> the welfare system in this country was morally bankrupt,
> >
> >
> > A.A. I don't agree. Welfare is morally bankrupt if it becomes
> > generational.
>
> No, the governments that abandon the poor to their own devices are
morally
> bankrupt. Had Johnson followed through on his War On Poverty instead of
> following through on his War On Poor Asians, this country could be a
totally
> different place. But he didn't and Clinton didn't have the vision to
> declare war on poverty.
>
>
**A.A. War on Terror, War on Poverty, War on Drugs. We do love war. Maybe
it's saying something that Clinton didn't declare another war. At least he
didn't indulge in trickle down crap. I think the black middle class
expanded under his presidency and poverty at least didn't grow. Under Bush
poverty has grown significantly. Johnson was a good domestic president who
will be remembered only for Vietnam.
> > his failure to act
> >> to stop the genocide in Rwanda was criminal.
> >
> >
> > A.A. I remember the U.S. was being castigated as the world's policeman.
> > Somalia was a disaster. He probably could have done more in Rwanda.
The
> > good old days when we acted like a superpower, either defending or being
> > expected to defend those in need.
>
> Good Jesuit thinking there, Andy.
>
>
**A.A. Thanks.
> > A.A. Your standards are very high. Effectively running the government
and
> > transforming a budget deficit into a surplus merits a rotten egg from
you.
>
> Vision and competence and courage. If those are high standards, I stand
> guilty of high standards.
>
**A.A. You need a Don Quixote to support. Never mind. We have one. He's
president now.
> But it's all water under the bridge. There's no democrat in sight with
> vision for the country. We've abandoned the playing field to the money
> grubbers. Maybe tomorrow.
>
>
**A.A. Reagan unleashed that genie. Greed is good ... I still think
Hillary can pull it out, but who knows. She won't win anyway.
Out of time,
Andy Amago
> Mike Geary
> Memphis
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
Other related posts:
