[lit-ideas] Re: Yahoo! Traitors with Clinton Sidebar


A.A. Except that Newt wound up hanging himself with his own rope

Nope, like Clinton, Newt wound up hanging himself with his own penis.

Newt is about as intelligent as I am. Clinton & Co. would have had him for breakfast had they been political geniuses. But they were just ambitious.


A.A. You forget that he had to function in a Republican Congress.  The
country elected Congress.  That's where the mood was.


Not when he started. But the "political genius" gave Congress away to the first comer with a vision. That was blind boy Newt. Bill had no vision, but, by God, he felt our pain. The pain of being without a vision. And all the time he was feeling our pain, he was kissing the ass of Corporate America. Remember that during the campaign, Mr. Feel Your Pain felt it necessary to toughen up and so he left the campaign trail to travel back to Arkansas to oversee the execution of functionally retarded man, Ricky Ray Rector. The boy was just too goddamn smart for his own good and ours.


Politics is the art
of the possible.

Leadership (i.e., political genius) is creating the possible.


He worked with what he had.  It's why a Democrat was even
elected, because he was pretty center.

George H. W. Bush lost to Clinton because of the "vision thing" -- that, but primarily it was the goofy-ass Ross Perot (who did infact have a vision, but of hell) -- who threw the election to Clinton by drawing off 19% of the vote, almost all of it from Bush.

As a moral man
Clinton has always struck me as very ordinary -- venal, vain, lecherous,
ambitious -- like most of us.


A.A. I never cared about his morals. His sex life is his business unless
it's illegal, which it wasn't.   The country was doing well, that's all I
cared about.

I wasn't talking about his sex life. No one, not even Ken Starr cared about his sex life -- that was just dirty politics -- the dirtiest of politics. But his sex life was pretty pathetic, wasn't it? The most powerful man in the world limited to blowjobs? C'mon. Kennedy was fucking Marilyn Monroe. What a disappointment your boy was. The morals I was referring to had more to do with honesty and integrity.



A.A. How much courage would it take you to go to work every day with an
independent prosecutor investigating you, and every newspaper and every
talk radio airwave in the country beating you to death over fabricated
charges?  He was being accused of everything up to and including drug
dealing and murder.

Yes, he was the victim of a vast right-wing conspiracy -- no irony implied, the fascist right was out to destroy him. He had no choice but to face up to those charges. It was the political courage I was referring to. The man abandoned nearly every program that raised the hackles of the Republicans. I do give him credit for going into Haiti and preserving democracy there, but then it was all very quickly forgotten. I alsogive him credit for sticking to his guns in the Balkans when few supported him. If only those instances had been the hallmark of his presidency.




I heard Trent Lott on Larry King
Live singing Clinton's praises.

Praise from a racist. Great PR. Like Newt's sweet nothings to Hillary.


Clinton had his eyes on the prize and none
of that crap existed for him.  Bush is just the opposite.  He needs
everybody to agree with him.

Interesting. I'd say you've got that backwards. Clinton needs to be loved. Bush doesn't give a damn, he descended from God.



Clinton did nothing to
garner support for health care reform -- he should have moved mountains
if necessary.


A.A. He did.

He did?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Wow. I must have missed that.



He gave the job to Hillary and she came up with a plan, don't
you remember?

Oh, yes, I do remember that. He left her out there by herself to twist slowly in the wind.



It was rejected by the populace.  I don't even remember the
plan now,

Let me refresh your memory. The proposal mandated employers to provide health insurance and pay 80% of the premium costs. It guaranteed continued health insurance to individuals who lost employment or changed employment. A major linchpin of this proposal was regulation of the health insurance industry. States were required to identify one or more regional alliances to serve as purchasing agents for health care insurance. Workers could choose between low cost (HMO) type plans or fee for service plans. The benefits offered would be standardized. All workers would be pooled without consideration of age, gender or health status. The percentage of employee compensation which could be spent on health care insurance was limited. Although the plan attempted to build on the existing employment-based structure, it ultimately was defeated because of an opposition which included some insurers and provider organizations and most Republicans. Perhaps due to its complexity, the plan drew little support in the face of such opposition.



but I'll bet if it was put forth now it would be seen in a
different light.  Of course, it's impossible now since we can't pay for it
anymore.

It was a stupid plan, tied to employers. What the fuck do employers have to do with health care? But it could have been a start.




He would abandon his appointees and supporters at the first hint
of opposition, among them: Joycelyn Elders his Surgeon General and Lani
Guinier, nominated for Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights.


A.A. I have no comment on that.  I vaguely remember Elders recommending
that masturbation be taught as a sexual alternative to kids to keep STD's
down.  It's not a bad idea, just an idea ahead of its time.  We're still
working off of the masturbation is evil thing.  I don't remember what
happened with Guinier.  I don't know what you would have wanted him to do.

What Bust does, stand behind his people.


Overall, his administration was effective.

Well, a hell of a lot better than Bush's.


I opposed Clinton's support for NAFTA AND GATT.


A.A. All the former presidents supported it, Carter, Bush, Ford. Maybe you
have a gift for international trade.

I have a gift for not giving away the shop.




I think his dismantling of
the welfare system in this country was morally bankrupt,


A.A. I don't agree.  Welfare is morally bankrupt if it becomes
generational.

No, the governments that abandon the poor to their own devices are morally bankrupt. Had Johnson followed through on his War On Poverty instead of following through on his War On Poor Asians, this country could be a totally different place. But he didn't and Clinton didn't have the vision to declare war on poverty.



his failure to act
to stop the genocide in Rwanda was criminal.


A.A. I remember the U.S. was being castigated as the world's policeman.
Somalia was a disaster.  He probably could have done more in Rwanda.  The
good old days when we acted like a superpower, either defending or being
expected to defend those in need.

Good Jesuit thinking there, Andy.


A.A. Your standards are very high.  Effectively running the government and
transforming a budget deficit into a surplus merits a rotten egg from you.

Vision and competence and courage. If those are high standards, I stand guilty of high standards.


But it's all water under the bridge. There's no democrat in sight with vision for the country. We've abandoned the playing field to the money grubbers. Maybe tomorrow.


Mike Geary
Memphis



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