Friday, November 11, 2005, 8:04:03 PM, Phil Enns wrote: PE> 2. This difference in what is intended is not a matter of killing greater or PE> fewer numbers of civilians. (The original claim, attributed to Andreas but PE> concurred by Judy Evans, had been that the only difference between PE> terrorists and American soldiers was a matter of degrees, ie. quantity.) the actual claim was AR>Eric is arguing that he is better than terrorists only by degree: AR>he's only a bit better than a terrorist. "We're not completely as bad AR>as Saddam." Quite a collapse of position, no? in reply to EY>> All the other terrorists would go "Huh?" and do a double-take. EY>> It'd be time to drug you and chain you inside a truck full of EY>> explosives (with a remote detonation switch in case you chicken EY>> out) and set you rolling toward the Green Zone and your 70 virgins. JE> They would? You seem very sure of that. More importantly, you here > counterpose *everybody in the US" (etc.) and "the terrorists". > Clearly if we take a group of terrorists and the US etc., we'll find > more people in the latter group who won't (imminently and under > current circumstances) commit an act of terror. EY>> The very fact that you are crying "beams and motes" makes us EY>> better than the terrorists JE> Ditto EY>> And that's without even comparing the EY>> various claims and counterclaims. Guantanamo versus 9/11; Abu EY>> Ghraib versus routine beheading of journalists and innocent EY>>workers, etc. JE> the US (etc.) are supposed to be better than everybody else, not just JE> than groups of known terrorists -- aren't they/we? Is your claim, in JE> the end, that terrorists are worse than you in that they have JE> committed terrorist acts? (Wow.) Andy then wrote AA> That's a good point, if I'm interpreting it correcting. Al Qaeda is not an AA> arm of any government, while it was the U.S. government who attacked an AA> uninvolved country. Likewise it's the U.S. government (CIA, etc.) who does AA> assassinations such as of Diem and others. Splitting the world into us AA> good, you evil is a formula for more and more war. and I replied JE>Actually, I meant that Eric seemed to be comparing/contrasting JE>everybody in the US with a group of terrorists of a particularly JE>unpleasant kind**. But perhaps by "us" JE>he did mean the US administration. Whichever's right, I agree with JE>Andreas' claim that Eric's saying "just a little bit better than...", JE>which is not what the claim's supposed to be. JE>**terrorists differ Hope that's clear -- Judy Evans, Cardiff, UK mailto:judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html