[lit-ideas] Re: Willie Pete's Role Reversal

  • From: Judy Evans <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:40:34 +0000

Friday, November 11, 2005, 8:04:03 PM, Phil Enns wrote:


PE> 2. This difference in what is intended is not a matter of killing greater or
PE> fewer numbers of civilians.  (The original claim, attributed to Andreas but
PE> concurred by Judy Evans, had been that the only difference between
PE> terrorists and American soldiers was a matter of degrees, ie. quantity.)

the actual claim was

AR>Eric is arguing that he is better than terrorists only by degree:
AR>he's only a bit better than a terrorist. "We're not completely as bad
AR>as Saddam." Quite a collapse of position, no?

in reply to

EY>> All the other terrorists would go "Huh?" and do a double-take.
EY>> It'd be time to drug you and chain you inside a truck full of
EY>> explosives (with a remote detonation switch in case you chicken
EY>> out) and set you rolling toward the Green Zone and your 70 virgins.

JE> They would?  You seem very sure of that.  More importantly, you here
> counterpose *everybody in the US" (etc.) and "the terrorists".
> Clearly if we take a group of terrorists and the US etc., we'll find
> more people in the latter group who won't (imminently and under
> current circumstances) commit an act of terror.

 EY>> The very fact that you are crying "beams and motes" makes us
 EY>> better than the terrorists

JE> Ditto


EY>> And that's without even comparing the
EY>> various claims and counterclaims. Guantanamo versus 9/11; Abu
 EY>> Ghraib versus routine beheading of journalists and innocent
 EY>>workers, etc.

JE> the US (etc.) are supposed to be better than everybody else, not just
JE> than groups of known terrorists -- aren't they/we?  Is your claim, in
JE> the end, that terrorists are worse than you in that they have
JE> committed terrorist acts?  (Wow.)


Andy then wrote

AA> That's a good point, if I'm interpreting it correcting.  Al Qaeda is not an
AA> arm of any government, while it was the U.S. government who attacked an
AA> uninvolved country.  Likewise it's the U.S. government (CIA, etc.) who does
AA> assassinations such as of Diem and others.  Splitting the world into us
AA> good, you evil is a formula for more and more war.

and I replied

JE>Actually, I meant that Eric seemed to be comparing/contrasting
JE>everybody in the US with a group of terrorists of a particularly
JE>unpleasant kind**.  But perhaps by "us"
JE>he did mean the US administration.  Whichever's right, I agree with
JE>Andreas' claim that Eric's saying "just a little bit better than...",
JE>which is not what the claim's supposed to be.

JE>**terrorists differ

Hope that's clear

-- 
Judy Evans, Cardiff, UK

                           mailto:judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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