[lit-ideas] Re: When Did You Last See Your Father?

  • From: palma <palma@xxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 11:43:23 -0400 (EDT)

by thinking On Tue, 18 May 2010, Walter C. Okshevsky wrote:


Outcome is the only thing that makes something morally wrong.

This looks like a categorical (absolute) claim to me. It claims truth and/or
rightness regardless of any outcomes, consequences, caused states of affairs in
the world that may result from its truth and/or rightness. The statement is thus
a performative contradiction and, as such, is irrational. Is there a way of
saving it epistemically?

Walter O
MUN








Why shouldn't one lie?  Because we do injury to another and society when we
mislead them.  Therefore lying is morally wrong.  But so is telling the
truth when it leads to the injury of another, telling the truth can be just
as morally wrong as lying.  It can, in fact, be more so.  The absolutes
about what is morally wrong seem silly to me.  It all depends on the
circumstance.  Is it morally wrong to kill a man?  Not to save yourself or
loved ones or even the social order -- though that last can be a sticky
wicket.  It is not wrong to lie to save someone, it is morally praiseworthy.

Mike Geary


[Original Message]
From: Phil Enns <phil.enns@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 5/17/2010 9:12:23 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: When Did You Last See Your Father?

Mike Geary wrote:

"It seems to me that you stripped 'morally wrong' of all meaning.   I
would say the opposite, that in certain circumstances it's a moral
imperative to lie."


I find it odd that the claim that dissembling the truth is always
morally wrong is understood as making 'morally wrong' less meaningful.
 Yet, Mike acknowledges that there is a lie involved, but he seems to
be saying that it isn't a lie.  That is, that there isn't a moral
wrong to be found in the moral wrong of dissembling the truth.  And I
am stripping 'morally wrong' of all meaning?

In the case of the murderer, there are two distinct, yet related,
activities.  First, there is the matter of answering the murderer, and
then there is the matter of protecting the innocent person.  One may
choose to lie in order to protect the innocent person, but that
doesn't change the fact that one lies.  One may justify the lie by
pointing to a specific outcome, but that outcome doesn't change the
fact that one lied.

Moral wrongs are not determined by outcomes, as though one needs to
see how things turn out to find out if one did something wrong.


Sincerely,

Phil Enns
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  Ratio, enim, nisi judex universalis esse deberet, frustra singulis datur.

  [ _Quaestiones Naturales_, Adelard of Bath ]



Signora granda, testa che massa
massa ne passa, che quasi schissa,
Dia dei sostegni de cese e palassi
Dia de le taje che su ne tien fissi
Dia de le onde che le ne fa grassi,
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aàh Venessia aàh Venàssia aàh Venùsia

Andrea Zanzotto, Filò, (Sezione: Recitativo Veneziano)

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