In a message dated 5/29/2010 9:53:40 A.M., donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: The sleight-of-hand is that we do not ordinarily use the verb "knew" in the first-person when referring back to some knowledge we now know to be false: we would tend to use "I thought..", "I believed.." etc. This usage avoids the confusion that might arise if it seemed we were saying that we "knew correctly" something we now recognise as false: a confusion liable to arise because of the two very different senses in which we may claim to "know", only one of which has connotations of justified true belief. --- Thanks. I should revise Plato on 'circle'. I KNOW I posted the thing to CLASSICS-L, so I may search the files. It combines with what Grice says about 'circle' and 'knowledge' (in WoW, 'Meaning Revisited'). Re McEvoy's above, it seems to incorporate Grice's worst nightmare! --- Grice coined "Modified Occam Razor": "Senses should not be multiplied beyond necessity". Surely McEvoy's is an unnecessary multiplication of the sense of 'know', especially when you can explain the oddity of "I knew that my granny was there, but I was wrong" by pointing that the utterer is STUPID. --- To accept ONE Sense of 'know' and ANOTHER sense of "Know" is enough to give Grice a heart attack. And to add Tense Variability: "One thing is the sense of 'know'; another a sense of "knew"" would give him ANOTHER heart attack, if that were possible (i.e. on the basis that he may have survived the FIRST one). Etc. --- JL Speranza, Bordgihera ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html