[lit-ideas] Re: War, no sort of about it

From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:50:03 EDT
It's kind of silly of me, but until I started attending some Torah classes  
at the local synagogue (The people there still, some of them, read/write in the 
 language the text was in originally), I as not aware that Jewish theology 
has a  very different concept of humans than Christianity.  The Jews (here 
....) 
 believe that mankind is inherently NON-evil; that every person born is born 
with  the choice to "sin" (hard choice of words .... in Hebrew there are 7 
different  words that we interpret as "sin"), and they decidedly do not buy 
into 
the notion  of original sin, perpetually passed through the generations 
because of the first  people who screwed up.  Nor do they, largely, interpret 
the 
Tanakh (Old  Testament) literally.  They "get" the notion of different genres, 
metaphor,  symbolism, etc.  Re. the notion of inherent evil, I suppose my 
biggest  problem with the Jewish way of thinking is, if all the billions of 
people 
who  have lived had a choice between good and evil, why does everyone, at some 
point  in their life, screw up?  *Someone* surely would have chosen good 
instead  at some point...
 
Julie Krueger
 

========Original  Message========     Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: War, no sort of 
about it  Date: 8/13/05 12:47:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time  From: 
_Eternitytime1@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Eternitytime1@xxxxxxx)   To: 
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)   Sent on:    

In a message dated 8/13/2005 7:45:30 AM Central Daylight Time,  
aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

Religion  is vindicated.  Crabs and sheep can't stop
themselves from being bad  without the thought that Father is going to come
home and beat the living  daylights out of them


Dear Andy,
Actually, most people follow G-d the Father because they also agree that  
people are inherently evil and that the only possible way to have people be  
'good' is for them to accept that it took the Messiah's death in order to 
defeat  
and take away that 'sin' of evilness--both the conscious and subconsious-that 
is  inherent within being human.
 
The idea is that the more one embraces the Christ, the more 'Christlike' or  
perfect or without evil and doing good that one will be.  It is the ones  
(Christian or not) who refuse to do that who end up still wearing the old  
garments of evil, sin, imperfection, etc.
 
One of the first steps in becoming a Christian is that of recognizing that  
one needs G-d in order to be able to change one's behavior.  If one does  not, 
then it is pretty much impossible (so it is said--I'm just trying to  explain 
the theory, okay? Please do not attack me personally...I do get a bit  tired 
of that...)
 
There is a lot of merit in the theory--especially if one has embraced the  
idea that humans are inherently evil and that there is no way to change them  
other than outside force or constraints or internal change.  
 
Only through the Grace of God can anyonce change (in this theory).   All 
goodness in a person comes NOT from that person, but from Christ living in  
that 
heart...
 
All we like sheep have gone astray
We've turned every one to his own way,
But he has healed us by his stripes
And made us  whole again...
made us whole again...
 
He bore our sorrows and our pain
He took away our sin
He has healed us by his stripes 
and made us whole again...
 
(it's a song, too, to remind one of the only way to become whole, to become  
perfect, to become 'good'--is to believe and let God in your life, your heart, 
 your soul.  It's not just that life will be good and great in the Great  
Beyond--it is that you won't have the leftover trappings of the inherent  
evilness that you came to this planet wearing.  You will, finally, be what  you 
were 
created to be--perfect, whole, healthy, kind, forbearing, loving,  patient, 
joyful, peaceful, with the self-control that you long for...so that you  will 
not engage in things like war, meanness, selfishness, etc.  Sure--the  'root' 
of 
those things was torn out when one accepted 
one's evilness and need, belief in Jesus--and not only that, but asked him  
into one's Heart--but the leftover flowering yuckiness is still there and needs 
 to be gradually taken away...but only He can do that. Only with the Grace of 
God  will one be able to live in the complete goodness that one desire...  
It's  why Believers are not yet perfect--but they long to be, they finally know 
how to  get there...and they long for the New Heaven and New Earth often 
because they do  not like the fact that they are not yet Christlike...for they 
still have to live  in this earth...
 
It is a bit different from how I tend to look at the ways people can go  
about changing the subconscious or belief system via retraining to make the  
conscious and subconscious minds 'match' is not part of that theory...it IS 
part  
of the Theory of the Month Club that I have subscribed to this month...but  
thought I'd share one of the past theories from That Club to which I did once  
subscribe.  The elements which 'work' in that older theory are also  explained 
in the newer theory esp with the new research on how the brain  works...but 
since we are not discussing that theory right now, I'll stop talking  about it 
with the last thought that it is a much more positive and fun theory to  be 
examining...)
 
Thinking that Andy would make a great fundamentalist Christian with his  
belief in the evilness of People and that (for him, like them-or so it appears  
from faraway [always recognizing that I may be misunderstanding him...]) there  
seems to be no other alternative but a miracle to change people, 
Marlena, back in Missouri
[lit-ideas] Re: War, no sort of about it

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