[lit-ideas] Re: Two poems, two approaches, for Friday
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 01:04:59 -0400
I don't dispute that. The book I'm referring to is by Fox Butterfield (NYT
journalist, he used to report on the USSR), called All God's Children (the
story of criminal Willie Bosket). I read it years ago. In it he describes
the system of honor which he traces to the Scotch Irish who brought their
code of honor to South Carolina, which was an exceptionally violent place
even by violent 19th century standards. Fox makes a very credible case.
Obviously the Scotch Irish didn't invented honor, but they were
instrumental in disseminating it in the U.S. As far as Homeric heroes
living by a code of honor, that makes sense because the Greeks were engaged
in war and were generally violent, as you describe. Also, Homer is dealing
in story telling, and honor is essentially a fantasy, like chivalry. When
men dueled in the recent past, honor was also more precious to them than
life itself, part of the distorted thinking about it. Taken to its logical
conclusion, honor rules the inner cities. I can't see how any person can
look at that and say honor makes any sense. History is basically a
recounting of mankind's insanity, so honor fits in there like a glove. I
suggest reading Fox Butterfield's book for more details regarding its
application to the U.S.
> [Original Message]
> From: Robert Paul <robert.paul@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 5/14/2006 12:31:29 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Two poems, two approaches, for Friday
>
> > I heard an interview recently which corroborated what I had read quite
> > some time ago about the concept of 'honor'. 'Honor' is an outgrowth of
> > a Romantic notion derived primarily from Sir Walter Scott's Ivanhoe
> > fiction that Southern white slave holders, particularly in South
> > Carolina, used as a basis for retaliating perceived slights from each
> > other
>
> I think you'll find it goes back quite a bit further than that. 'Honor'
> timé) is what drives the plot of the Iliad, whose characters' actions
> would be unintelligible without at least a rough understanding of it.
> Plot outlines of the Iliad are thick on the ground but here's a bit
> about honor from
>
> http://depthome.brooklyn.cuny.edu/classics/dunkle/studyguide/homer.htm
>
> The code which governs the conduct of the Homeric heroes is a simple
> one. The aim of every hero is to achieve honor, that is, the esteem
> received from one's peers. Honor is essential to the Homeric heroes, so
> much so that life would be meaningless without it. Thus, honor is more
> important than life itself. As you will notice in reading the Iliad,
> when a hero is advised to be careful to avoid a life-threatening
> situation in battle, his only choice is to ignore this warning. A hero's
> honor is determined primarily by his courage and physical abilities and
> to a lesser degree by his social status and possessions. The highest
> honor can only be won in battle. Here competition was fiercest and the
> stakes were the greatest. Two other heroic activities, hunting and
> athletics, could only win the hero an inferior honor. An even lesser
> honor was won by the sole non-physical heroic activity, the giving of
> advice in council (1.490; 9.443). Nestor, who is too old to fight, makes
> a specialty of giving advice since that is the only heroic activity left
> to him (1.254-284).
> ----------
> Robert Paul
> Reed College
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
Other related posts:
