[lit-ideas] Re: The meaning of life
- From: Donal McEvoy <donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:30:31 +0000 (GMT)
--- On Sun, 7/12/08, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> *I agree that what we call mixed or contradictory emotions
> do not actually stand in a logical relation to each other,
> hence cannot be said to be logically contradictory. But
> surely thoughts can, insofar as they are (at least largely)
> propositions.
Yes. But while the content of a proposition may reflect the content of a
thought (i.e. correspond with it) the existence of what is posited by a
proposition is a question of the truth or validity of the proposition whereas
the existence of the content of a thought is merely a question of whether in
fact someone had that thought, irrespective of whether that content is true or
valid. This is way of re-stating why thoughts and thought-contents in the W2
sense do not raise questions of truth and validity; only thought-contents in
the W3 sense of propositional content raise questions of the whether what is
posited by the proposition is true or valid. Hence only 'thought-contents' in
the W3 sense stand in logical relations to each other: it cannot both be the
case that Jack is here and not here, but it can be the case that someone flits
between thinking that Jack is here and is not here.
>If I think that Jack is here and and I also
> think that Jack is not here then I have some kind of a
> problem. Not sure about the diagnosis, but surely my
> thoughts are not logically coherent.
Not when the thought-contents are considered as W3 propositional content: but
the existence of such contradictory W3 propositional content as conflicting W2
'thought-contents' or mental states is not ruled out by logic. This is to
re-iterate the point that the same content can be considered under either the
aspect of its W2 or W3 status; but these 'aspects' or 'levels' must be
distinguished. We might, for example, use the conflict between someone's W2
'thought-contents' to explain why, psychologically, they are
anxious/indecisive/confused etc. - but logic does not compel their anxiety etc.
- for here we are in the realm of 'thought-contents' as mental states in a
psychological sense, a W2 sense. Equally we might consider 'thought-contents'
in terms of their W3 propositional content but such considerations [of truth
and validity]
operate independently of whatever psychological states might accompany such
'thought-contents' in W2 i.e. we might be able to say in W3 terms that
'thought-A' _contradicts_ 'thought-B' irrespective of whether anyone holding
such thoughts is anxious or not, indecisive or not etc.
Btw, the example of 'Jack is here' and 'Jack is not here' is, I think, not as
good as examples like 'I want to hit Jack' and 'I don't want to hit Jack': this
because when it comes to whether something exists or does not our psychology is
primed to follow logic and not (dialecticians aside) admit something can at the
self-same point both be what it is and be the negation of this. Nevertheless
this twinning of psychology and logic in such cases is not something that is
compelled by or explained by logic - it is a fact of human psychology requiring
a psychological explanation [we could hardly act and survive if we were
psychologically disposed to regard something as simultaneously its negation].
>And if I intend to both
> hit and not hit Jack, these are surely contradictory
> propositions. If I am entertaining them both then I may be
> said to be conflicted or in a dilemma.
Yes, they are contradictory propositions when considered under the aspect of
W3; and this may produce psychological conflict in W2. Yet as Russell's letter
to Frege shows, even a great logician may unwittingly entertain an inconsistent
theory - inconsistent in W3 - without it conflicting him psychologically
because in W2 he is unware of the contradiction. And people may be
psychologically conflicted in W2 because they think theories are inconsistent
when in fact, in W3 terms, they are not.
Donal
Departing W3
For some W1 refreshment
London (itself something with W12&3 aspects)
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