From a quick reading of this I quote, "The powerful effect of the placebo i= s not in doubt. It should be, however, according to Danish researchers Asbj= =F8rn Hr=F3bjartsson and Peter C. G=F6tzsche. Their meta-study of 114 studi= es involving placebos found [no such thing as a placebo effect]." I note t= he word should. But like I said, I read it quickly. This might be like th= e meta study that allegedly disproved that weight bearing exercise has any = effect on bone mass. That flies in the face of a lot of evidence too. =20 Andy Amago -----Original Message----- From: Andreas Ramos <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Nov 28, 2004 10:29 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The flu The peer-reviewed study was published at=20 http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/344/21/1594 The page has a short = summary of the=20 study. There is a more general description of the study at=20 http://www.cellularwisdom.com/placebo-effect.html yrs, andreas www.andreas.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The flu >I agree that in the absence of bacterial and other infections which are so= m=3D > etimes fatal or become chronic (stomach ulcers caused by bacteria for exa= mp=3D > le), very often, if not usually, the body has an amazing ability to heal = it=3D > self. That's the line about the cold going away in 7 days if treated and= a=3D > week if not treated. The immune system is amazing in what it can do. An= d=3D > what it can overdo in autoimmune diseases and the like, including causing= =3D > an inflammatory response from too much fat on the body. > > There was a study a few years ago where people with knee problems had "gh= os=3D > t" surgery, i.e., they were convinced they had surgery (scar, etc.) when = in=3D > fact they had not. Those people improved just as much as the ones who ha= d=3D > actual surgery. Likewise with Parkinson's Disease. These people's probl= e=3D > ms were intractable before the "surgeries". Newsweek did an entire issue= o=3D > n the mind/body connection a few months ago. =3D20 > > While I don't dispute these authors' findings, I'm sure if they're real s= ci=3D > entists they'd be the first to say that their results have to be replicat= ed=3D > and peer reviewed before they enter the mainstream as fact. > > > Andy Amago > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andreas Ramos <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Nov 28, 2004 6:49 PM > To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The flu > >> Colds and other sickness relief is often a result of the >> placebo effect. The placebo effect is so powerful and so >> quantitatively measurable that people with Parkinson's disease and >> knee problems have reported improvement of symptoms from placebo >> treatments. It might be why chicken soup "works". > > There is no placebo effect. > > Researchers put patients with diseases in three groups: Group 1 got treat= me=3D > nt, Group 2 got a=3D20 > placebo, and Group 3 got nothing. > > Group 2 and 3 had the same results (some got better, some got sicker). Th= e =3D > placebo had no=3D20 > effect. > > The explanation is that if you get sick, most likely, you'll get better v= er=3D > y soon anyway.=3D20 > Most people shake off most illnesses anyway, REGARDLESS of what they do (= ta=3D > ke chicken soup,=3D20 > vitamin C, dance with serpents, pray to their local sun god, a shot of wh= is=3D > key, etc.) or do=3D20 > nothing about it at all. > > See the study by A. Hr=3DF3bjartsson & P. C. G=3DF6tzsche, 2001 on the pl= acebo =3D > effect. > > "A. Hr=3DF3bjartsson & P. C. G=3DF6tzsche found that in many studies wher= e a co=3D > ntrol group was used=3D20 > that did not get any treatment at all, the effects in the no-treatment gr= ou=3D > p were almost=3D20 > equal to the effects in the placebo group. Most studies however only use = a =3D > placebo group as=3D20 > control. The authors concluded that the placebo effect is overrated, and = th=3D > at studies in the=3D20 > future should have a no-treatment group when possible, to make sure that = ef=3D > fects would not=3D20 > be attributed to a placebo effect while they are totally natural effects = th=3D > at would have=3D20 > occurred anyway. In a follow-up study (A. Hr=3DF3bjartsson & P. C. G=3DF6= tzsche=3D > , 2004) the same=3D20 > authors were able to confirm their previous results and concluded: "We fo= un=3D > d no evidence of=3D20 > a generally large effect of placebo interventions. A possible small effec= t =3D > on=3D20 > patient-reported continuous outcomes, especially pain, could not be clear= ly=3D > distinguished=3D20 > from bias". > > yrs, > andreas > www.andreas.com=3D20 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, > digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, > digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html