[lit-ideas] Re: The Strident Voice of Defeat
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:47:18 -0800
Brian:
'Tis a common thing in my experience however. I am 72 years old and have
studied one thing or another my entire life. At various times people who
haven't studied as much have wanted to argue with me and it is frustrating
for them when I refer to some expert, say an expert on Islamism and imply
that they have a wrong understanding based upon this expert, whose wisdom I
am happy to impart to them. Their recourses are limited, but over the years
I've heard several.
1. They could say I haven't read as much as I claim to, but there is
usually evidence to contradict that.
2. They can claim that I have read the wrong things. Knowing that
non-readers were eventually going to invoke this one, way back in the
beginning of my study of the Middle East, Islam, Islamism, etc. I provide
the approach I was going to take in this study. And periodically thereafter
as my understanding grew I would explain why I was reading certain books and
not others. I didn't initially read Edward Said because he had been wrong
about the dangers of Islamism, but as I read more and more, and more writers
dealt with Said, I decided to read him - as well as another exemplar of
wrongness, John Esposito
3. They can claim that their knowledge, while not obtained from books,
is superior to mine. I heard that quite a lot years ago when I was arguing
with Charismatics. They claimed to get their knowledge directly from the
Holy Spirit which of course trumped mine which came from books. A Sayyid
Qutb Islamist would use an argument like that also. He believes that all
truth is to be found in the Koran and the Sunnah - nothing else.
4. They can claim that while I read a book I misunderstood it, whereas
they have a true understanding. This approach can be used in only a limited
way as in the Bible or the Koran and the Sunnah. You can't understand it
truly until you become a believer, but believers will later learn that is
not enough, they must believe some particular interpretation. The risks of
not getting an interpretation quite right is less severe if one lives among
Christians than among Qutbist Islamists, however - where it can be fatal.
5. Then there is the True Believer in who is going to do the equivalent
of putting his hands over his ears and shouting Yaaaaaaaah to drown out what
I am saying, because he's heard enough to realize that it conflicts with his
beliefs, but he hasn't studied enough to argue with me. I do run across
such people occasionally. Sometimes they use insults rather than
Yaaaaaaaaah.
6. Then there is the equivalent of "you can't know anything about being
Black unless you are Black." "I'm black, and you are white; so you can know
nothing about what it's like to be black." I think that's pretty much run
its course in Black movements. But perhaps Mike is trying to adapt that to
the current situation. That will be difficult because Qutbist Islamism
doesn't want to be accepted. It doesn't want rights as Blacks did in the
U.S. It wants to conquer and it fully expects to. It is a warrior code and
to oppose it doesn't comprise "bigotry" in any usual sense of that word.
One doesn't usually wonder if one is becoming a bigot if one is defending
one's family or nation against an attacking enemy. And Qutbism believes in
attacking enemies.
So do I react if Mike yells Yaaaaaaaaaah or accuses me of being a bigot?
Not at all. People usually do that just before they quit arguing with me.
Lawrence
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Brian
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:03 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Strident Voice of Defeat
This paragraph reaches a level of absurdity that is stupefying. Mike, tell
me, is it difficult to type with your index fingers pressed firmly into each
of your ears?
~Brian
On Jan 13, 2007, at 1:24 AM, Mike Geary wrote:
But in fact, Lawrence, you don't know the first thing about Islamism. You've
never studied the Islamic religion under an Islamist, you've never lived in
that culture, you don't speak the language, you are, I believe, deeply
bigoted towards Islamism. All you know is what a bunch of men as ignorant of
Islamism as you are tell you. Sorry, guy, I just don't pay any attention to
anything you say. Nothing personal.
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