In response to: "There is no music before language." Jacques Derrida, Of Grammatology Donal wrote: "The context and meaning of this is not clear, but taken as a bare statement it seems to belong to that category of self-regarding dogmas that may have special appeal to students of language: dogmas that language is 'fundamental', or 'primary' or that language is 'central' or the 'royal road' to understanding ..." Derrida is critical of any attempt to uncover something that is 'fundamental', 'primary' or 'central'. So, for example, he criticizes Heidegger's talk of language as being one more form of onto-theology, that is, the search for something that is central or fundamental for understanding what is. Of course, Derrida was not himself immune from this temptation as can be seen in his use of the term 'differance'. It seems to me that in the above quote, Derrida is not suggesting that everything is language, but rather arguing against the standard understanding of language as the communication of ideas from the mind of one person to another. To this end, Derrida focuses on the iterability of signs, the way in which signifiers like words can maintain meaning while at the same time being used in novel and unexpected ways. To cross threads, we can read Shakespeare today even though we may not be certain who Shakespeare was, and we can appreciate Dante's Inferno even though we are not 14th century Italians, or Christians, for that matter. In short, while intentionality is a necessary part of language use, signification is equally necessary. This, however, would expand our understanding of what constitutes language use, including even music, with its intentionality and repetition of notes. Music is possible only if intentionality and signification are possible. So, yes, we can consider birds as using language when they sing insofar as we can discern intentionality and repetition. This would be in contrast to, for example, the burbling of a brook or the whistling of the wind through the branches of a tree. These sounds may be beautiful, but we would call it music only in a metaphorical sense. Burbling and whistling, Phil Enns ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html