[lit-ideas] Re: Stasi on our Minds

Lawrence, you have to prove your case. You can't just make bizarre assertions.
Prove how al Qaeda is a "serious threat" to the USA. Show us a plausible scenario where they could invade, capture control of the government and financial and technology of the USA. How they could control the American population. 

Go ahead: prove your case.

yrs,
andreas
www.andreas.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:15 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Stasi on our Minds
Got it. You don't believe the asymmetric warfare being engaged in by the Islamists is a serious threat to us or our allies. I understand. 

Lawrence



------------Original Message------------
From: "Andreas Ramos" <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, May-30-2007 9:03 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Stasi on our Minds

It's not "a minor inconvenience to go through airport security." Airports
have turned into militarized zones. This is nonsensical because if someone
wants to hijack an aircraft, it's very easy to do so. The "airport security" 
isn't meant to stop hijackers. It's meant to harass people.

All of our communications are under surveillance: emails, telephone, cell
phones. How will that stop al Qaeda?

All of our banking and financial transactions (every deposit, every ATM
withdrawal, every credit card use) is under surveillance. How will that stop 
al Qaeda?


Islamists have declared war on us...


Lawrence, this is so absurd. A ragtag group is a mortal threat to the USA?
Our military budget is greater than then next 50 countries COMBINED.

The point of al Qaeda is to use them as a threat. The endless surveillance
and the militarization of airport is intended to to get Americans to vote
correctly.

It turned out that the White House could have assassinated top al Qaeda
people several weeks before the start of the Iraqi invasion. No, the attack 
was called off. Why? Can't have a good war without an enemy, can we now?

Why is bin Laden, five years later, still uncaptured?
The American media has completely bowed to the Bush administration. Congress 
has been rendered irrelevant. The White House ignores the Constitution.

That's what Ash was talking about, and that's what you simply don't see.

yrs,
andreas
www.andreas.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:21 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Stasi on our Minds



Okay, you agree with my conjecture about what Ash means. Here is what I
wrote:

"But if Ash means what I assume him to mean; then he is weighing (or has
already weighed) in on the side of Olivier Roy, Gilles Kepel, Francis
Fukuyama, et al, who assume that the Islamist Threat is overrated. Perhaps 
it is impossible not to take one side of the other in this regard. I have
tried to sit on the fence, but that precarious perch seems unbelievable to 
most who hear it. I have read the Roy etc. arguments and believe them to
be plausible, but inasmuch as the Islamist enemy has vowed our destruction 
I don’t believe this matter can remain academic. The Islamists have
declared war on us and are engaged in attacks of one kind and another; so
it is prudent to protect ourselves against their efforts – including (with apologies to Ash) protection against Fifth-Columnist-types in our nations. 

"When the spy slips in to do his evil deed, it is best to discover and
stop him – not protect his human rights and civil liberties – it seems to
me."

Our nation has taken the prudent course to provide as much protection
against terrorists as possible.  We are for prudency's sake assuming the
terrorist threat is real.  You on the other hand, while not saying so,
assume the terrorist threat is not real.  It is of little significance,
not worth your being delayed at an airport.  I understand. You may be
right. You share company with Ash, Olivier Roy, and others. Whether this 
prudence we are exercising is necessary, remains to be seen.  Some think
the old dictum, "better safe than sorry," still has validity.  Others
think the chance of their being harmed by a terrotist so small that any
restriction, any delay, any infringement of any kind is great to be borne. 
Of course since we have launched ourselves on a program of prudence, we
shall not be putting you Alfred E Newmans to the test; so complain on -- I 
guess.

Lawrence






------------Original Message------------
From: "Andreas Ramos" <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, May-29-2007 8:43 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Stasi on our Minds

From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>


I enjoyed the review and appreciate Ash generally, but in his last
paragraph he writes, "The Germany in which this film was produced, in the 
early years of the twenty-first century, is one of the most free and
civilized countries on earth. In this Germany, human rights and civil
liberties are today more jealously and effectively protected than (it
pains me to say) in traditional homelands of liberty such as Britain and
the United States."



Ash doesn’t elaborate on what he means. Is he referring to the American
and British restrictions of the "human rights and civil liberties" of
avowed enemies of these nations, i.e., terrorists? I can’t think what
else
he could mean.


I also read the same article and noticed that concluding paragraph.

Ash isn't talking about the "restriction of terrorists' liberties." He's
writing about ordinary US citizens.

I lived in Germany for seven years. I was often in East Berlin to visit
friends. That meant I went through the Soviet checkpoints and walked
around
in East Berlin, which was a communist police state.

And I've had the same experience as Timothy Garton Ash: there was more
personal freedom in the USSR then than in the USA today.

The Soviets barely cared what you had in your bags. Totally bored, they
waved me through. In the USA: when I fly on an airplane, I must go through 
a
total security check. My photo IDs and baggage are examined. I've had so
many things confiscated at airports.

In East Germany, I always had my Swiss pocket knife. In the USA when I
travel, I can't even carry a tiny penknife. Not even my nail clippers. Not 
even a bottle of shampoo or a tube of toothpaste.

In East Germany, we sat and drank beer and complained about the
government.
Nobody cared. In the USA, you'd better consider what you say about Mr.
Bush
in your emails, on your phone, or cell phone. All of those are monitored.
Your bank records, your credit card transactions, and your web activity
are
all monitored. All of it. Everything you do. Yes, Lawrence, we live in a
total surveillance state. The Soviets didn't have that.

I went through many Soviet and East German checkpoints. And believe me,
Lawrence, the US checkpoints are far more restrictive and threatening. One 
wrong word and you not only lose your flight (and get a 36-hour
detention),
you lose the right to fly anywhere forever.

That's what Ash meant in his article. But you simply don't see that. In
your
eagerness to find enemies, your Bush has stripped away our liberty.

yrs,
andreas
www.andreas.com

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