[lit-ideas] Re: Spartan wars with the Argives

"From Iacynthus with Love"
 
----
 
Thanks to L. K.Helm for keeping typing things for us from that interesting  
book by Carledge.
 

"There is . . . evidence of direct confrontation between them in the  extant
poetry of Tyrtaeus, which dates to around 670. . . the two states  fought a
pitched battle in 669, which Argos . . . won convincingly."
 
---- Well, yes, and thanks for noting the name. Note that I prefer the  
transliteration "Turtaios" (although it does sound like "tortuga", Spanish for  
"tortoise") in that that's what Wiki gives, where the 'u' in "Tu-" is the  
ypsilon, or 'i grecque' as the French call them (and indeed in Spanish, too "y  
griega" -- I learn the alphabet by reciting,
 
         a be ce de e efe
        ge hache i jota ka ele eme ene o  pe
        quu   erre ese te u  ve
        doble ve
        equis
        y griega
        y zeta.
 
--- In English it's _easier_.
 
--- then the ending, in Latin, 'aeus', is more complex than the simpler  
Greek, -aios', and perhaps the Greek is more sonorous. Note that the Greek 'u'  
was 
pronounced as the French 'u', in "la lune" -- The Latins did not have this  
sound, and it's not found in English or Spanish, or Italian.
 


". . . Sparta had been the aggressor. . .  So, as soon as the  Spartans felt
able to . . . they set out to try for a conclusion once and for  all.  This
was about 545 . . . but the manner in which the conflict was  conducted was,
at least to begin with, strikingly odd."
 
 
--- Well, also I would think ARGOS being Peloponnesian, I wouldn't think a  
war was _necessary_.
 
But then, as Anaxagoras said, the sun is "possible as big as the  
Peloponnese" -- The Greeks could be _naive_.
 
I read somewhere else that the Spartans would not fight too often against  
the same enemy for the enemy never to start getting 'immune' to the  attacks. 
Perhaps the Americans should follow suit there? (I see if I find  the passage 
in 
case Geary wants to quote it against people -- although it's a  poor 
justification for the stoppage of a war, ednit?)
 
Cartlage continues


"Rather than committing their full hoplite  musters, the Spartans and the
Argives agreed to a battle of 300 selected  champions on either side, a sort
of epic trial of strength."
 
---- That's interesting. And of course we have the "CCC" of the Thebans too  
"The Holy Bond". 
 
I was also reading -- in either Dover or Sargent -- that the Spartans also  
had what they called the
 
        KRUPTEAIA
 
-- I think the transliteration would be -- which was a _sect_ of young  
warriors -- not sure what 'young' means there -- that were claimed to be the  
wildest, would attack at night. What surprised me was that members of this 
group  
(almost para-military, if you wish) ALSO belonged, as a matter of merit -- to  
the
Spartan 'cavalry' (hippoes').
 
This interests me because Polo is Popular in Argentina and I was asked if  
polo players need be "midgets". I don't think so! Although JOCKEYS in horse  
races SHOULD. But perhaps your regular polo player -- and why not cavalry  
officer -- is of the 'midget' variety. I am surprised that cavalry is _the  
military 
force_ *par excellence* when it comes to prestige in England. 
 
 
Cartlage continues:
 
"This resulted in an equally striking outcome.
After a particularly  violent encounter, or series of encounters, just three
fighters were left  alive on the field: two Argives, one Spartan."
 
Interesting. Who would have counted them? It reminds me of the trial to  
Orestes. After he was voted 'innocent', there was a requirement in the Jury to  
be 
always composed of ODD number, for that phenomenon not to be repeated (and  
talking of phenomenon, why do they say that Paris (Hilton) is *phenomenal*?  
Meaning a _freak_ originally? Geary discussed this). 
 
Cartlage continues:
 
 
"The
Argives, who were so to speak instinctively egalitarian and  democratic,
judged that this very superiority of numbers was tantamount to a  victory -
and returned home to Argos to report and celebrate as much.   However, the
one surviving Spartan, who was clearly neither a democrat nor  an
egalitarian, refused to concede; on the contrary, he claimed the victory  for
Sparta, on the grounds that he alone had stayed 'at his post', on  the
battlefield, as a true hoplite should, and he set up a victory  trophy
accordingly in the name of Sparta.  Of course, the Argives were  not going to
tolerate that, so they sent out their full force of hoplites to  meet the
full Spartan levy, and the Spartans then won a truly decisive  victory.  As a
direct consequence, they now controlled Thyreatis and  indeed incorporated it
within their state territory of Lacedaemon."

--- Excellent. That should teach them a lesson. Argos is a nice name.  I 
played in a band -- I played the bass. And we didn't have a name for it,  so my 
uncle (it was a family thing) suggested, "Argo", and so we assumed  that name. 
We painted a 'ship' on the drum. But now I see there are at least *3*  argo 
things:
 
-- Argo, s-less, is the name of the ship of Jason and the  Argo-nauts
 
then there's
 
-- Argos on the water (which is not necessarily black, as Geary  fears)
 
and then there's
 
"argos" with s, which is a bird (I should know the scientific name). It  
looks like a peacock, and has very many eyes in the feathers of the tail. This  
is 
after some monster in Turkey, also mentioned by the Greeks.
 
--- Perhaps someone could explain me the distinction between Laconia and  
Lacedaemonia. I should get a nice map with the counties of Peloponnese, as they 
 
once were. It's all heat and dust today -- but one that I wouldn't mind  
'revisit'.
 
   "Heat and dust" is the title of a film with G. Scacchi.
 
Cheers,
 
JL Speranza
       Buenos Aires,  Argentina






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