No.
[Original Message]
From: Stan Spiegel <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 12/29/2005 11:23:58 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
Irene / Andy - Remind me again, why do we need Israel?
Irene -
Let me reframe your question. It isn't "why do we need Israel?" any more
than it is "why do we need Irene / Andy?"
The fact is we don't need Irene. Irene is. Period. She has the right to
exist. Israel, like Irene, is. Period. Nothing's going to change that.
Israel has the right to exist.
Does that help?
Stan
Portland, ME
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
> Feel better, Stan? I'm glad. Nothing like a little condescension and
> feelings of superiority to carry the day. Remind me again, why do we
need
> Israel?
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Stan Spiegel <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: 12/29/2005 11:53:22 AM
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
>>
>> Hi Irene -
>>
>> Boyoboyoboy! You really think very little of humanity. What must have
>> happened to you in your lifetime that makes you see only the dark side
of
>> things? (Or what's going on right now that accounts for that?) There's
no
>> light nor love nor joy in your perspective. Reminds me of Matthew
> Arnold's
>> Dover Beach:
>>
>> Ah love, let us be true
>> to one another! For the world, which seems
>> to lie before us like a land of dreams,
>> so various, so beautiful, so new,
>> hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
>> nor certitude, nor peace, nor help from pain;
>> and we are here as on a darkling plain
>> swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
>> while ignorant armies clash by night.
>>
>> I hope things get better. We have a new year rapidly approaching. I
wish
> you
>> a happy new year..
>>
>> Stan
>> Portland, ME
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 11:19 AM
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
>>
>>
>> > What a great achievement that humans can read. Wow. That their
>> > reading
>> > does them not one whit of good is unmentioned. No love is required
to
>> > reproduce, only sex. Sex, money, food are what make humans "human".
>> > Money
>> > is used to buy food and sex. And some of us are appalled by WWII.
>> > Most
>> > don't care about it or don't know about it except to glamorize it
>> > and
> wish
>> > they looked like G.I. Joe dolls. When it comes to being a
>> > successful
>> > human, the lower the standards, the better.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> [Original Message]
>> >> From: Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Date: 12/29/2005 10:36:09 AM
>> >> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
>> >>
>> >> JMc:
>> >> >Returning to Geary's original point. Social Darwinism is misnamed
>> >>
>> >> Yes, this was my point. One of two. There's no Darwinism in
>> >> Social
>> >> Darwinism. Hobbesianism is far more the apt term, I think. Stan
> (whose
>> >> views I agree with) and "Andy" use the term as it is often used, I
was
>> >> merely objecting to the use of Darwin's name in the term. There's
>> > nothing
>> >> Darwinian about Social Darwinism.
>> >>
>> >> Point two. I was objecting to "Andy's" insistence that most humans
>> >> are
>> >> stupid and evil and incapable of empathy. Many people have called
me
>> >> "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short," and they're probably
>> >> right,
>> > but
>> >> that's never kept me from whistling the Ode to Joy. Humanity is
>> >> not
>> > stupid.
>> >> Walk through any library and tell me humankind is stupid. Go to
>> >> any
> art
>> >> museum or gallery and tell me that mankind is "stolid and stunned a
>> > brother
>> >> to the ox". Read this message on your computer and tell me we're
>> > incapable
>> >> of learning. Are we incapable of empathy? Some of us seem to be,
but
>> >> social living would be an impossibility if most of us were. There
are
> 6
>> >> billion people in the world. Somebody's doing some loving
somewhere!
>> > And
>> >> caring for. And sacrificing for. And working for. The child
rearing
>> > may
>> >> not meet "Andy's" standards, but we're getting there. We work
through
>> > time.
>> >> Generation by generation. Change comes creeping slow. The point
is
>> >> we
>> > are
>> >> more the noble savage than we are Turnbull's Mountain People. 40
> million
>> >> people were killed in WWII, how could I make such a claim? I make
it
>> >> because we are appalled by that fact. We are not without caring,
> neither
>> > as
>> >> individuals nor as a species. Are we there yet? No. It'll be a
>> >> while
>> > yet.
>> >> Find something to amuse yourself. I'll tell you when we get there.
>> >>
>> >> Mike Geary
>> >> Memphis
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>
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