[lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:47:33 -0500
No.
> [Original Message]
> From: Stan Spiegel <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 12/29/2005 11:23:58 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
>
> Irene / Andy - Remind me again, why do we need Israel?
>
> Irene -
> Let me reframe your question. It isn't "why do we need Israel?" any more
> than it is "why do we need Irene / Andy?"
>
> The fact is we don't need Irene. Irene is. Period. She has the right to
> exist. Israel, like Irene, is. Period. Nothing's going to change that.
> Israel has the right to exist.
>
> Does that help?
>
> Stan
> Portland, ME
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
>
>
> > Feel better, Stan? I'm glad. Nothing like a little condescension and
> > feelings of superiority to carry the day. Remind me again, why do we
need
> > Israel?
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Stan Spiegel <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Date: 12/29/2005 11:53:22 AM
> >> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
> >>
> >> Hi Irene -
> >>
> >> Boyoboyoboy! You really think very little of humanity. What must have
> >> happened to you in your lifetime that makes you see only the dark side
of
> >> things? (Or what's going on right now that accounts for that?) There's
no
> >> light nor love nor joy in your perspective. Reminds me of Matthew
> > Arnold's
> >> Dover Beach:
> >>
> >> Ah love, let us be true
> >> to one another! For the world, which seems
> >> to lie before us like a land of dreams,
> >> so various, so beautiful, so new,
> >> hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
> >> nor certitude, nor peace, nor help from pain;
> >> and we are here as on a darkling plain
> >> swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
> >> while ignorant armies clash by night.
> >>
> >> I hope things get better. We have a new year rapidly approaching. I
wish
> > you
> >> a happy new year..
> >>
> >> Stan
> >> Portland, ME
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 11:19 AM
> >> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
> >>
> >>
> >> > What a great achievement that humans can read. Wow. That their
> >> > reading
> >> > does them not one whit of good is unmentioned. No love is required
to
> >> > reproduce, only sex. Sex, money, food are what make humans "human".
> >> > Money
> >> > is used to buy food and sex. And some of us are appalled by WWII.
> >> > Most
> >> > don't care about it or don't know about it except to glamorize it and
> > wish
> >> > they looked like G.I. Joe dolls. When it comes to being a successful
> >> > human, the lower the standards, the better.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> [Original Message]
> >> >> From: Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Date: 12/29/2005 10:36:09 AM
> >> >> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Social Darwinism or Darwinian Socialism?
> >> >>
> >> >> JMc:
> >> >> >Returning to Geary's original point. Social Darwinism is misnamed
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, this was my point. One of two. There's no Darwinism in Social
> >> >> Darwinism. Hobbesianism is far more the apt term, I think. Stan
> > (whose
> >> >> views I agree with) and "Andy" use the term as it is often used, I
was
> >> >> merely objecting to the use of Darwin's name in the term. There's
> >> > nothing
> >> >> Darwinian about Social Darwinism.
> >> >>
> >> >> Point two. I was objecting to "Andy's" insistence that most humans
> >> >> are
> >> >> stupid and evil and incapable of empathy. Many people have called
me
> >> >> "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short," and they're probably
> >> >> right,
> >> > but
> >> >> that's never kept me from whistling the Ode to Joy. Humanity is not
> >> > stupid.
> >> >> Walk through any library and tell me humankind is stupid. Go to any
> > art
> >> >> museum or gallery and tell me that mankind is "stolid and stunned a
> >> > brother
> >> >> to the ox". Read this message on your computer and tell me we're
> >> > incapable
> >> >> of learning. Are we incapable of empathy? Some of us seem to be,
but
> >> >> social living would be an impossibility if most of us were. There
are
> > 6
> >> >> billion people in the world. Somebody's doing some loving
somewhere!
> >> > And
> >> >> caring for. And sacrificing for. And working for. The child
rearing
> >> > may
> >> >> not meet "Andy's" standards, but we're getting there. We work
through
> >> > time.
> >> >> Generation by generation. Change comes creeping slow. The point
is
> >> >> we
> >> > are
> >> >> more the noble savage than we are Turnbull's Mountain People. 40
> > million
> >> >> people were killed in WWII, how could I make such a claim? I make
it
> >> >> because we are appalled by that fact. We are not without caring,
> > neither
> >> > as
> >> >> individuals nor as a species. Are we there yet? No. It'll be a
> >> >> while
> >> > yet.
> >> >> Find something to amuse yourself. I'll tell you when we get there.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mike Geary
> >> >> Memphis
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> >
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