[lit-ideas] Re: Nation Building
- From: Robert Paul <robert.paul@xxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:38:57 -0800
Lawrence wrote:
As we’ve discussed elsewhere, some Marxist ideals like the 8 hour
working day have been incorporated into American Society. I believe
the last time I mentioned this some scoffed, and thought it was
FDR. I was basing my statement on having struggled through most of
/Das Kapital /years ago. Here is Marx on the “Working Day.”
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch10.htm
Lawrence, we did not 'discuss' this earlier. You asserted that various
social and economic benefits enjoyed in Western democracies were derived
from Marx, e.g. 'old age insurance,' the eight hour day. However, you
simply asserted this and provided no evidence at all that this was so.
I replied to you in brief detail. You did not reply, and write now as if
the matter were settled. The section from Marx you supply, interesting
as it is, is an analysis of the competing claims between workers (paid
by the hour or day) and their employers. It points out, quite reasonably
that the interests of these parties are going to be at odds. It does not
mention the eight hour day: it points out the reasonableness of limiting
the work day, in terms of mutual self interest.
"We see then, that, apart from extremely elastic bounds, the nature of
the exchange of commodities itself imposes no limit to the working-day,
no limit to surplus-labour. The capitalist maintains his rights as a
purchaser when he tries to make the working-day as long as possible, and
to make, whenever possible, two working-days out of one. On the other
hand, the peculiar nature of the commodity sold implies a limit to its
consumption by the purchaser, and the labourer maintains his right as
seller when he wishes to reduce the working-day to one of definite
normal duration. There is here, therefore, an antinomy, right against
right, both equally bearing the seal of the law of exchanges. Between
equal rights force decides. Hence is it that in the history of
capitalist production, the determination of what is a working-day,
presents itself as the result of a struggle, a struggle between
collective capital, i.e., the class of capitalists, and collective
labour, i.e., the working-class."
I think you may have forgotten, if you ever knew, how vicious capitalism
was during the time Marx wrote. Given that, it's surprising to me that
Marx was as temperate as he was.
Although it's clear that Marx believed that there should be a rational
constraint upon how many hours workers should be required to work, this
notion is not by any means peculiar to him and the push for an eight
hour day by the groups I mentioned earlier was not an outgrowth of
Communist doctrine. 'Eight hours for work, eight hours for rest, and
eight hours for what we will,' was the rallying cry of workers who did
not want their lives to be 'sweated from birth until life closes.'
Robert Paul
The Reed Institute
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