[lit-ideas] Re: Nation Building

  • From: Robert Paul <robert.paul@xxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:38:57 -0800

Lawrence wrote:

    As we’ve discussed elsewhere, some Marxist ideals like the 8 hour
    working day have been incorporated into American Society.  I believe
    the last time I mentioned this some scoffed, and thought it was
    FDR.  I was basing my statement on having struggled through most of
    /Das Kapital /years ago.  Here is Marx on the “Working Day.”

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch10.htm

Lawrence, we did not 'discuss' this earlier. You asserted that various social and economic benefits enjoyed in Western democracies were derived from Marx, e.g. 'old age insurance,' the eight hour day. However, you simply asserted this and provided no evidence at all that this was so.

I replied to you in brief detail. You did not reply, and write now as if the matter were settled. The section from Marx you supply, interesting as it is, is an analysis of the competing claims between workers (paid by the hour or day) and their employers. It points out, quite reasonably that the interests of these parties are going to be at odds. It does not mention the eight hour day: it points out the reasonableness of limiting the work day, in terms of mutual self interest.

"We see then, that, apart from extremely elastic bounds, the nature of the exchange of commodities itself imposes no limit to the working-day, no limit to surplus-labour. The capitalist maintains his rights as a purchaser when he tries to make the working-day as long as possible, and to make, whenever possible, two working-days out of one. On the other hand, the peculiar nature of the commodity sold implies a limit to its consumption by the purchaser, and the labourer maintains his right as seller when he wishes to reduce the working-day to one of definite normal duration. There is here, therefore, an antinomy, right against right, both equally bearing the seal of the law of exchanges. Between equal rights force decides. Hence is it that in the history of capitalist production, the determination of what is a working-day, presents itself as the result of a struggle, a struggle between collective capital, i.e., the class of capitalists, and collective labour, i.e., the working-class."

I think you may have forgotten, if you ever knew, how vicious capitalism was during the time Marx wrote. Given that, it's surprising to me that Marx was as temperate as he was.

Although it's clear that Marx believed that there should be a rational constraint upon how many hours workers should be required to work, this notion is not by any means peculiar to him and the push for an eight hour day by the groups I mentioned earlier was not an outgrowth of Communist doctrine. 'Eight hours for work, eight hours for rest, and eight hours for what we will,' was the rallying cry of workers who did not want their lives to be 'sweated from birth until life closes.'

Robert Paul
The Reed Institute
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