[lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)

"quite" what?  Are those Muslim men throwing eggs at this person doing what?  
Or why?  Anti-Muslim, anti-woman, anti-conservative?

Veronica Caley

Milford, MI
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Judith Evans 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:33 PM
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)


        I didn't say you were prejudiced.

        >And now that I have read Baroness Warsi's own words, 

        quite.


        --- On Sun, 23/1/11, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


          From: Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
          Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
          To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
          Date: Sunday, 23 January, 2011, 18:40


          One more time Judy, this is what I said:
          Comment: My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed to Muslim 
people, is the same as toward any religious group.  I said this and you quoted 
it.

          I think prejudice is not even accurate for what I said I believed or 
felt.  Namely, that I just don't want people to control other people's lives 
that don't subscribe to their religion whatever that might be.  I am not 
prejudging anyone.  My my judgments are on what they do or say, especially 
non-members.  And now that I have read Baroness Warsi's own words, she was the 
one that called Muslim men throwing eggs at her "idiots."  

          It's not just Muslims.  Former President Jimmy Carter quit the 
Southern Baptist Leadership Conference because of their stance that wives must 
be submissive to their husbands.  The Catholic Bishops Conference has intruded 
itself into the health care bill debate here to prevent any woman from getting 
an abortion, regardless of their religion.  I think this is against the US 
Constitution, in as much as it's silent on the issue.  But not silent on 
government and religion being separate.

          Veronica Caley


            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Judith Evans 
            To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 5:38 PM
            Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)


                  >>>>>>>>>>>

                  This was sometime on Jan. 20th, between 9 A.M. and 10 A.M., 
Eastern Standard Time in US.  I believe the time difference between here and 
London is 6 hours.

                  I think they got their information about the speech from one 
of the London papers.  If you care enough which one, look it up.  I personally 
don't.  Since clearly she released it and expected it to be covered.
                  <<<<<<<<<<

                  I asked because the London papers I read, the ones I checked, 
to see what their extracts from the speech she was to deliver on the evening of 
the 20th, said, did not print the full speech. Don't tell me to "look it up", 
Veronica, I was asking about your grounds for suggesting she should tell 
Muslims to shut up about discrimination and prejudice.  And your grounds are, 
what someone said on "the BBC America" (I see it does carry BBC World 
News/World News America) about a forthcoming speech you think he'd seen 
reported in "one of the London papers"... ).

                  >>>>>>>>>>
                  Judy:
                  |s it only OK to oppose discrimination and prejudice against 
members of a group if all its members accept "Western secular values"?  

                  Veronica:
                  It is OK to do what one can to protect oneself from those who 
would interfere in one's life for no good reason.  
                  <<<<<<<<<<

                  non sequitur.  Fred Phelps would restrict the lives of many, 
this country has barred him from entry.  Prejudice against Christians is not 
justified therefore, discrimination against all who share his views, may not 
be.  

                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                  Veronica:


                  Referring to the "Baroness" as "this lady" is perfectly 
acceptable here.  Probably because we don't have nobility as such here with 
titles such as this.  Sorry if it offended your English sensibilities.
                  >>>>>>>>>>>> 

                  ah yes wounding... *I said*, 

                  "(Is it OK to say "this lady" when you've been given a name?"

                  *I'd previously said* -- giving you a name... -- Sayeeda 
Warsi.  The objection to "this lady" has nothing to do with the fact that 
Sayeeda Warsi, Sayeeda Hussain Warsi, is a life peer, is Baroness/Lady Warsi.   
I was wondering whether "lady" had mixed connotations in the US, as it does 
here. But clearly not.  

                  >>>>>>>>
                  Veronica:
                  Comment: My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed to 
Muslim people, is the same as toward any religious group.
                  <<<<<<<<<<

                  comment. Warsi is talking about prejudice and discrimination 
*against Muslims*, she didn't mention the MCB (for example) in her speech. (I 
assume that's what you mean by Muslim authorities.)  So, well, you know, so 
what?  









                  --- On Fri, 21/1/11, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
wrote:


                    From: Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
                    Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
                    To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                    Date: Friday, 21 January, 2011, 21:49


                    This was sometime on Jan. 20th, between 9 A.M. and 10 A.M., 
Eastern Standard Time in US.  I believe the time difference between here and 
London is 6 hours.

                    I think they got their information about the speech from 
one of the London papers.  If you care enough which one, look it up.  I 
personally don't.  Since clearly she released it and expected it to be covered.

                    Judy:
                    |s it only OK to oppose discrimination and prejudice 
against members of a group if all its members accept "Western secular values"?  

                    It is OK to do what one can to protect oneself from those 
who would interfere in one's life for no good reason.  As in the imam I cited 
who definitely is not in favor of free speech.  I also believe that when one 
immigrates, one ought to do as much as possible to assimilate into the new 
culture.  That has not been happening here as with previous waves of 
immigrants.  That doesn't mean to take it all as is, but it does mean that one 
ought not to expect the new culture to adapt to them.  

                    Referring to the "Baroness" as "this lady" is perfectly 
acceptable here.  Probably because we don't have nobility as such here with 
titles such as this.  Sorry if it offended your English sensibilities.

                    Comment: My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed 
to Muslim people, is the same as toward any religious group.  With one or two 
exceptions (Unitarians, Quakers) they tend to be authoritarian and misogynistic.
                    And they don't want to control their flock only.  They want 
to control  everyone.

                    Veronica




                      ----- Original Message ----- 
                      From: Judith Evans 
                      To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                      Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 10:27 AM
                      Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)


                            >>>>>>>>>>>
                            The BBC America had a discussion about this lady 
and her comments.  The one I liked the best was the man who said that she ought 
not to have spoken about anti-Muslim prejudice.  Given her position, she ought 
to have spoken out about how one of the causes of prejudice against Muslims is 
their refusal to except Western secular values.  
                            <<<<<<<<<<<<

                            when exactly was this?  could it have been before 
she made the speech?  Was he relying on the leaked excerpts printed in the 
right wing press?  Had he even read those? Have you?     

                            (Is it OK to say "this lady" when you've been given 
a name?  -- I suppose where you are, "this lady" may be complimentary.)

                            speech here:


                            
http://www.sayeedawarsi.com/2011/01/university-of-leicester-sir-sigmund-sternberg-lecture/

                            --- On Fri, 21/1/11, Veronica Caley 
<molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


                              From: Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
                              Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
                              To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                              Date: Friday, 21 January, 2011, 14:53


                              The BBC America had a discussion about this lady 
and her comments.  The one I liked the best was the man who said that she ought 
not to have spoken about anti-Muslim prejudice.  Given her position, she ought 
to have spoken out about how one of the causes of prejudice against Muslims is 
their refusal to except Western secular values.  His contention, familiar to us 
all, that we all accept people making fun of, and disrespecting the religion 
of, anyone and everyone.  Muslims generally won't accept this.

                              The performer M&M was to perform in Detroit a few 
years ago.  Because of the vulgarity, the city forbid it.  He sued, won and the 
city had to pay $300,000 restitution.  The reaction of a very moderate imam  of 
a mosque near Detroit was: the show is shameful, the city out to have 
prohibited it and no fine ought to have been levied.

                              I recently finished a book called, "Why I Am Not 
A Muslim."  Among the things I learned: that people who call the prophet a 
pedophile do so because he married a nine year old girl, that he evidently was 
a bandit who shared the spoils, and that he was killing Jews or driving them 
off the land as early as the seventh century.

                              Re Eric's comment on stoning, if you haven't seen 
it, two recommendations: the Christian method is in a film called  "Zorba the 
Greek."  The Muslim version, in a film made by an Iranian, is called, "The 
Story of Soraya M"
                              Zorba is also a book.  I recommend you see the 
film.  Also that you don't eat before doing so.

                              Currently, there is a concern in Western 
countries that some Muslims are taking daughters to the home country for 
circumcision and early marriage.  I have read about this issue being of concern 
in the U.S. and Canada

                              Veronica


                                ----- Original Message ----- 
                                From: Judith Evans 
                                To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                                Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:42 PM
                                Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice 
(Judy?)


                                I haven't read the speech, I did know about it. 

                                "Baroness Warsi will say anti-Muslim prejudice 
is now seen by many Britons as normal and uncontroversial"


                                I'd say there's a lot of truth in this, I'd 
also say Sayeeda Warsi is not likely to exaggerate the extent and degree of 
prejudice. Just one thing

                                "She told the 2009 Conservative Party 
conference that anti-Muslim hatred had become Britain's last socially 
acceptable form of bigotry"

                                There's another one, anti-gypsy prejudice.

                                I have no idea how all this compares with the US

                                btw sorry distracted by some terrific breaking 
news, the Labour Shadow Chancellor's resigned and Ed Balls, who should have got 
the job in the first place, is taking over.  Prepare to see Tory ministers 
dismembered!!!!

                                Judy Evans, Cardiff

                                --- On Thu, 20/1/11, Julie C 
<juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


                                From: Julie C <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
                                Subject: [lit-ideas] Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
                                To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                                Date: Thursday, 20 January, 2011, 17:09


                                http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12235237  
Reactions anyone?  Judy?



                                Julie Krueger


                                 

                           

                 

       

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