[lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
- From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:33:51 +0000 (GMT)
I didn't say you were prejudiced.
>And now that I have read Baroness Warsi's own
words,
quite.
--- On Sun, 23/1/11, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sunday, 23 January, 2011, 18:40
One more time Judy, this is what I said:
Comment: My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed to Muslim
people, is the same as toward any religious group. I said this and you
quoted it.
I think prejudice is not even accurate for what I said I believed or
felt. Namely, that I just don't want people to control other people's
lives that don't subscribe to their religion whatever that might be. I am
not prejudging anyone. My my judgments are on what they do or say,
especially non-members. And now that I have read Baroness Warsi's own
words, she was the one that called Muslim men throwing eggs at her
"idiots."
It's not just Muslims. Former President Jimmy Carter quit the
Southern Baptist Leadership Conference because of their stance that wives must
be submissive to their husbands. The Catholic Bishops Conference has
intruded itself into the health care bill debate here to prevent any woman from
getting an abortion, regardless of their religion. I think this is against
the US Constitution, in as much as it's silent on the issue. But not
silent on government and religion being separate.
Veronica Caley
----- Original Message -----
From:
Judith Evans
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 5:38
PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice
(Judy?)
>>>>>>>>>>>
This was sometime on Jan. 20th, between 9 A.M. and 10 A.M., Eastern
Standard Time in US. I believe the time difference between here
and London is 6 hours.
I think they got their information about the speech from one of the
London papers. If you care enough which one, look it up. I
personally don't. Since clearly she released it and expected it to
be covered.
<<<<<<<<<<
I asked
because the London papers I read, the ones I checked, to see what their
extracts from the speech she was to deliver on the evening of the 20th,
said, did not print the full speech. Don't tell me to "look it up",
Veronica, I was asking about your grounds for suggesting she should
tell
Muslims to shut up about discrimination and prejudice. And your
grounds are, what someone said on "the BBC America" (I see it does
carry
BBC World News/World News America) about a forthcoming speech you think
he'd seen reported in "one of the London papers"...
).
>>>>>>>>>>
Judy:
|s it
only OK to oppose discrimination and prejudice against members of a
group if all its members accept "Western secular values"?
Veronica:
It is OK to do what one can to protect oneself from
those who would interfere in one's life for no good reason.
<<<<<<<<<<
non sequitur.
Fred Phelps would restrict the lives of many, this country has barred
him from entry. Prejudice against Christians is not justified
therefore, discrimination against all who share his views, may not
be.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Veronica:
Referring to the "Baroness" as "this lady" is perfectly acceptable
here. Probably because we don't have nobility as such here with
titles such as this. Sorry if it offended your English
sensibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
ah yes
wounding... *I said*,
"(Is it OK to say "this lady" when you've
been given a name?"
*I'd previously said* -- giving you a name...
-- Sayeeda Warsi. The objection to "this lady" has nothing to do
with the fact that Sayeeda Warsi, Sayeeda Hussain Warsi, is a life
peer,
is Baroness/Lady Warsi. I was wondering whether "lady" had mixed
connotations in the US, as it does here. But clearly not.
>>>>>>>>
Veronica:
Comment: My
feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed to Muslim people, is the
same as toward any religious
group.
<<<<<<<<<<
comment. Warsi
is talking about prejudice and discrimination *against Muslims*, she
didn't mention the MCB (for example) in her speech. (I assume that's
what you mean by Muslim authorities.) So, well, you know, so
what?
--- On Fri,
21/1/11, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
From:
Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re:
Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date:
Friday, 21 January, 2011, 21:49
This was sometime on Jan. 20th, between 9 A.M. and 10 A.M.,
Eastern Standard Time in US. I believe the time difference
between here and London is 6 hours.
I think they got their information about the speech from one of
the London papers. If you care enough which one, look it
up. I personally don't. Since clearly she released it and
expected it to be covered.
Judy:
|s it only OK to oppose discrimination and prejudice
against members of a group if all its members accept "Western secular
values"?
It is OK to do what one can to protect oneself
from those who would interfere in one's life for no good reason.
As in the imam I cited who definitely is not in favor of free
speech. I also believe that when one immigrates, one ought to do
as much as possible to assimilate into the new culture. That has
not been happening here as with previous waves of immigrants.
That doesn't mean to take it all as is, but it does mean that one
ought not to expect the new culture to adapt to them.
Referring to the "Baroness" as "this lady" is perfectly
acceptable here. Probably because we don't have nobility as such
here with titles such as this. Sorry if it offended your English
sensibilities.
Comment: My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed to
Muslim people, is the same as toward any religious group. With
one or two exceptions (Unitarians, Quakers) they tend to be
authoritarian and misogynistic.
And they don't want to control their flock only. They want
to control everyone.
Veronica
----- Original Message -----
From:
Judith
Evans
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011
10:27 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim
Prejudice (Judy?)
>>>>>>>>>>>
The
BBC America had a discussion about this lady and her
comments. The one I liked the best was the man who said
that she ought not to have spoken about anti-Muslim
prejudice. Given her position, she ought to have spoken
out about how one of the causes of prejudice against Muslims
is their refusal to except Western secular values.
<<<<<<<<<<<<
when
exactly was this? could it have been before she made the
speech? Was he relying on the leaked excerpts printed in
the right wing press? Had he even read those? Have
you?
(Is it OK to say "this
lady" when you've been given a name? -- I suppose where
you are, "this lady" may be complimentary.)
speech
here:
http://www.sayeedawarsi.com/2011/01/university-of-leicester-sir-sigmund-sternberg-lecture/
---
On Fri, 21/1/11, Veronica Caley
<molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From:
Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject:
[lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To:
lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, 21 January, 2011,
14:53
The BBC America had a discussion about this lady and
her comments. The one I liked the best was the man who
said that she ought not to have spoken about anti-Muslim
prejudice. Given her position, she ought to have
spoken out about how one of the causes of prejudice against
Muslims is their refusal to except Western secular
values. His contention, familiar to us all, that we
all accept people making fun of, and disrespecting the
religion of, anyone and everyone. Muslims generally
won't accept this.
The performer M&M was to perform in Detroit a few
years ago. Because of the vulgarity, the city forbid
it. He sued, won and the city had to pay $300,000
restitution. The reaction of a very moderate
imam of a mosque near Detroit was: the show is
shameful, the city out to have prohibited it and no fine
ought to have been levied.
I recently finished a book called, "Why I Am Not A
Muslim." Among the things I learned: that people who
call the prophet a pedophile do so because he married a
nine
year old girl, that he evidently was a bandit who shared
the
spoils, and that he was killing Jews or driving them off
the
land as early as the seventh century.
Re Eric's comment on stoning, if you haven't seen it,
two recommendations: the Christian method is in a film
called "Zorba the Greek." The Muslim version, in
a film made by an Iranian, is called, "The Story of Soraya
M"
Zorba is also a book. I recommend you see the
film. Also that you don't eat before doing so.
Currently, there is a concern in Western countries that
some Muslims are taking daughters to the home country for
circumcision and early marriage. I have read about
this issue being of concern in the U.S. and Canada
Veronica
----- Original Message -----
From:
Judith
Evans
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday,
January 20, 2011 12:42 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas]
Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
I haven't read the speech, I did know
about it.
"Baroness Warsi will say
anti-Muslim prejudice is now seen by many Britons
as
normal and uncontroversial"
I'd say
there's a lot of truth in this, I'd also say
Sayeeda
Warsi is not likely to exaggerate the extent and
degree of prejudice. Just one thing
"She told
the 2009 Conservative Party conference that
anti-Muslim hatred had become Britain's last
socially acceptable form of bigotry"
There's
another one, anti-gypsy prejudice.
I have no
idea how all this compares with the US
btw
sorry distracted by some terrific breaking news,
the
Labour Shadow Chancellor's resigned and Ed Balls,
who should have got the job in the first place, is
taking over. Prepare to see Tory ministers
dismembered!!!!
Judy Evans,
Cardiff
--- On Thu, 20/1/11, Julie C
<juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From:
Julie C <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject:
[lit-ideas] Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To:
lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, 20
January, 2011, 17:09
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12235237 Reactions
anyone? Judy?
Julie
Krueger
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