[lit-ideas] Re: Movie

  • From: Walter Okshevsky <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:27:33 -0230 (NDT)

Andrey,

Russian seems to be a very odd language. Why have a soft "t" in the
language when the 24th letter of the Russian alphabet is exactly the same
sound/phoneme: "ts" as in "tsar" or "tsapnul" (snapped)? It's written like
the Englisch "u" with a squiggle at the bottom right side.  I thought the
Soviets eliminated all forms of redundancy from the culture and
governement. Also odd is that there is a soft "r" in Russian
(as in "tsar" but not "rabota" or "razboynik") but it is not marked in the
language by either a soft sign or any other marker. Any hypotheses?
Aren't languages supposed to be logical semantic and syntactic
frameworks? Like Phoenix, AZ? Strana Mariyevana, chay pila a puza
holodnaya. Do all Russian infinitives end with a soft "t"?

Valodsya von Odessa


On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Andy Amago wrote:

> The 't' in nyet is distinctly hard.  The 't' in mat' (mother) is distinctly
> soft.  So soft, in fact, that it's followed by a soft sign, transliterated
> with an apostrophe: mat'.  Ubit' is followed by a soft sign, because it's
> an infinitive.  It's therefore a soft 't'.
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
> > To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 8/29/2006 2:51:45 PM
> > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Movie
> >
> > Gospodsi bozhimoy, pomiluy nas! There's obviously only one Russian ear on
> this
> > List. (Yes, I'm deaf in one ear.) None of the offered hypotheses on
> phonetics
> > or transliteration are correct. There is no soft "t" in Russian, there is
> only
> > one "t," as in "Tanya" or "Toronto." The purportedly soft "t" is a
> completely
> > different letter. And that is the letter in the Russian infinitive "to
> kill."
> > (And we won't even mention the Russian soft "r" as in "tsarina.")
> >
> > Valodsya Akshevsky
> > Zhivago Chair of Translation and Interpretation Sciences
> > University of Lower Odessa, Rossia
> >
> > Quoting Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >
> > > > For Paul, tsar is closer to the pronunciation.  It's ts like the ts
> in tsk
> > > > tsk, with a soft rolled r at the end.
> > >
> > >
> > > Interesting.  I've always wondered how to pronounce "tsk tsk."  You
> seem to
> > > say it's /ts, ts/.  Almost all the dictionaries I've consulted say the
> > > pronunciation is /tisk tisk/.  I've never ever heard anyone say "tisk
> tisk"
> > > in disapproval or in any other circumstance.  Nor have I ever heard /ts
> ts/.
> > >
> > > I have often heard people make a sound of disapproval by quickly
> withdrawing
> > >
> > > their tongue from their upper gum ridge which produces a sucking
> liquidy
> > > sound -- almost a /th/ sound in reverse.  Are there people who really
> say
> > > "tisk tisk"?  Or is that just the orthographic convention for the
> reverse
> > > th?
> > >
> > > Mike Geary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: "lit-ideas" <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:50 PM
> > > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Movie
> > >
> > >
> > > >I heard him interviewed.  He's basically says nothing with power point
> > > > razzle dazzle.  Better than bad news all the time I guess.
> > > >
> > > > As far as self mastery, I never said self mastery.  That's
> antithetical to
> > > > everything I believe in.  I believe in expressing emotions but doing
> it
> > > > such that no one gets hurt (certainly not to include war or
> variations on
> > > > war) and far from the madding crowd.  The point is training the
> emotions
> > > > through appropriate expression, not mastery.  Self mastery sounds to
> me
> > > > like turning one's self into a pressure cooker.  Good luck.
> > > >
> > > > For Julie, yeah, we do live in a three dimensional world but we have
> two
> > > > dimensional brains.  The tension between those states results in war,
> > > > persecution, etc.
> > > >
> > >   Russia never had a king, only tsars.
> > > > Tsar (alternatively czar, csar, tzar) is derivative of Caesar.
> > > >
> > > > Eric, check this out.  Everything's hunky dory in Iraq, except the
> Shiite
> > > > militias are fighting the Iraqi troops, otherwise known as the
> government.
> > > > Think that sounds like civil war?  Nah, I didn't think so.
> > > >
> > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5293278.stm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> [Original Message]
> > > >> From: Eric Yost <eyost1132@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> Date: 8/28/2006 1:38:50 PM
> > > >> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Movie
> > > >>
> > > >> Irene: We replay on this list what happened; reality is
> > > >> reported to you, you get mad not at the reality or the
> > > >> perpetrator of the reality, but at the messenger.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Obviously I don't believe you are reporting reality, but a
> > > >> sort of alarmist fiction that admits no correction. You may
> > > >> think I am also fabulating just as stubbornly. However, you
> > > >>   seem to linger on past policy mistakes, rather than look
> > > >> forward to new developments, in support of your view that
> > > >> the sky is falling.
> > > >>
> > > >> Try reading _The Pentagon's New Map_ by Thomas P.M. Barnett,
> > > >> for a less alarmist take on events. He's pro-globalism and
> > > >> uses an information paradigm, probably has other limitations
> > > >> I'm not aware of, but his is a refreshing perspective. You
> > > >> can buy his book here:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0399151753/104-6947401-6419119?v=glance&n=2
> > > > 83155
> > > >>
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