[lit-ideas] Re: More on Indonesia Radicalism:

>Where are all these moderates of yours and how are they
>opposing Jihadism in the Middle East.  I know that since
>the Indonesian election there is back and forth between
>Islamists and traditionalists and moderates, but that isn't
>quite the same as rolling back Jihadism now is it?

I suspect there's no evidence that would satisfy you as whatever
was produced, you'd say 'but that isn't opposing Jihadism in the Middle
East/rolling back Jihadism'.  But I'll go ahead anyway.

103 days ago, Alan Johnson was abducted in Gaza, by an Islamist group

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6518185.stm

You can sign the petition for his release here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/world/2007/alan_johnston/default.stm


The timeline is here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6518873.stm

I excerpt, ignoring protests by Muslims, for Johnston, in Muslim countries
outside the Middle East (and this list does not include all protests by
Muslims within the Middle East)

'Gaza has seen numerous demonstrations in support of the BBC correspondent,
and last Wednesday Palestinian journalists staged a strike.

There have also been numerous international demands for his immediate
release, including from the Arab League, '

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6492737.stm
Saudi called for his release

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6508499.stm

Palestinian journalists called for a boycott of coverage of their government
as a protest at their not doing enough to get him released

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6514551.stm



another Gaza protest

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6533357.stm

International Day of Action including Gaza City

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6546059.stm

Palestinians set up a website for him

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6580737.stm

here it is

http://free-alan.com/

rallies in UK and Middle East

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6590335.stm

Hamas calls for his release

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6612329.stm

Iran condemns his kidnap

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6650923.stm

Hamas demands his release

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6757209.stm

Hamas issues ultimatum

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6764679.stm

that ultimatum expires on Monday.

But, you will say, all these people are Jihadists.....



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: More on Indonesia Radicalism:




Phil wrote:  "Lawrence may close one eye and stare only in one direction but
there is no reason why anyone else should."

Lawrence replies:  Baloney!  Since you say you read my notes then you must
be very forgetful.  I challenged Omar on several occasions to produce these
vaunted moderates he believed in.  The best he could do were some in Gulf
States friendly to the U.S., in Christian Lebanon and a professor in
Pakistan who wrote his moderate articles solely in English.

I have been looking for Moderates with both eyes Phil and haven't found
them.  Note once again for the quibblers.  I am talking about the Middle
East, the place causing us all the trouble. I am not talking about Moderates
in the U.S or Europe.  In fact they are an indication of the tyranny of
Fundamentalist thinking in the Middle East that these moderates feel it
necessary to flee to the freedom of the West.  We did find one moderate in
Iran, but it developed that he was part of the original Khomeini revolution
and untouchable - sort of -- until he got beat up and fled to the U.S.

Where were you when I was challenging Omar?  Where are all these moderates
of yours and how are they opposing Jihadism in the Middle East.  I know that
since the Indonesian election there is back and forth between Islamists and
traditionalists and moderates, but that isn't quite the same as rolling back
Jihadism now is it?

Lawrence


 ------------Original Message------------
From: "Phil Enns" <phil.enns@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, Jun-23-2007 1:14 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: More on Indonesia Radicalism:

Lawrence Helm wrote:

"As a matter of fact I discussed all these matters at great length.
You must have evaded my long notes."

Nope.  I think I have read most of what you have written.  Putting a
great deal of time and energy into something is not the same thing as
getting work accomplished.  You write a great deal but very little
work gets done.  I do appreciate your putting me on to a variety of
writers, though.


Lawrence continues:

"And you are evading the point that your vaunted Indonesian moderation
IS NOT HOLDING OUT EFFECTIVELY AGAINST EXTREMISM!   They are losing
ground.

It would take a wiser person, perhaps a god, to know this.  But I
understand why you want it to be true.

I return to my original point that there are many Muslims and
influential Islamic institutions self-identifying as moderate in
explicit opposition to extremism.  Lawrence may close one eye and
stare only in one direction but there is no reason why anyone else
should.

Sincerely,

Phil Enns
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