[lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot

  • From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:30:33 -0000

tried to unsubscribe, but Freelists wasn't having
> any, so what was I to do?

You could have emailed Andreas and Teemu asking them to unsub
you.

I had to come back here and confront Judy's
> one-liners, Irene's irrationalities, Simon's illogicalities,
and John
> McCreery's innuendo.

a "one-liner" like

"your

Condemn
> terrorists and someone is going to condemn you in short order.

is a lie"

is easy to confront.  Produce evidence that when a list member
condemns terrorism,
they will be condemned, or admit you're wrong.

But I see you think you did just that.  I quote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 I am expressing and have frequently noted and expressed
irritation that Leftists so swiftly jump to the defense of our
enemies, or immediately claim we are just as bad if not worse
than they are, or counter our unhappiness with our enemies with a
rousing attack against America, its leadership, people who want
to defend America, etc.  If the stakes were high enough I could
easily go back through the records and produce scores if not
hundreds of such examples.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

this is not evidence, Lawrence, moreover, you would have to
produce evidence that
**when(ever)  a list member condemns terrorism, they will be
condemned**.   Are the stakes high enough for you to do that?
Well. I wouldn't like to be called a liar.  It seems you don't
mind.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
 Is Judy lying?  In keeping with what just wrote John, I don't
know enough to know whether she is lying.  She may not have read
all the notes.  She may not have read them with sufficient
attention.  Her eyes may be weakening.  Her attention may be
weakening.  I can think of a number of other possibilities.
<<<<<<<<<<

I thought of the possibility that you were not lying, Lawrence,
that you had so badly misread the posts that you believed what
you said.  I decided you were lying.

>I suppose it is impossible to get any of you to
> present logical arguments.

I think we can all agree it's impossible for any "of us" to
produce an argument you'll regard as logical.  But that is not
quite the same thing.

Judy Evans, Cardiff, UK

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:06 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot


> Now, now, Simon.  I don't call you Leftists "insane," I call
you illogical.
> And if you consider my saying so an insult, think about what it
would mean
> if I didn't say so.  I would be condoning your illogicality
with my silence.
> I would be refraining from doing my duty which in this case
involves
> describing to you what a logical argument consists of, and urge
you to
> beginning a dialogue worthy of an educated European. Actually I
did recently
> consider giving up on you Leftists and unsubscribing, but the
Andreas
> freelists device for doing that doesn't work.  I tried to go on
vacation and
> when that didn't work I tried to unsubscribe, but Freelists
wasn't having
> any, so what was I to do?  I had to come back here and confront
Judy's
> one-liners, Irene's irrationalities, Simon's illogicalities,
and John
> McCreery's innuendo.   I suppose it is impossible to get any of
you to
> present logical arguments.  It is probably just as impossible
to prevent me
> from being irritated by that fact when I am confronted with it.
>
>
>
> I won't discuss your note below in detail.  It is very much in
character -
> big on emotional rant, lacking in anything approaching evidence
and utterly
> unrelated to anything remotely smacking of a logical argument.
>
>
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Simon Ward
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:16 AM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot
>
>
>
> You posted it pubicly?
>
>
>
> Hey Lawrence, you know I just didn't realise that given the
indirect
> references to us 'dumb' leftists. And your right, insults were
chucked at
> you that you just didn't deserve given the fact that you never
even approach
> the insult stage when dealing with us 'insane' leftists. And
I'm sure your
> correct and that all these deaths, all these bereaved families
across the
> world, all the hundreds of thousands of lives that have been
ended in the
> last few years, all the vaporisation that has gone on is a just
response to
> the three thousand that died in New York.
>
>
>
> How dare these inferior types challenge the might of the West
and if they
> do, what else can they expect than wholesale vaporisation; a
hundred to one,
> a thousand to one, what is the appropriate ratio we wonder. And
if for every
> dead terrorist another five rise in their place because of all
this
> vaporisation, well so what; if they dare to stand, we'll just
knock them
> down in even greater numbers.
>
>
>
> Death! Death! Death!
>
>
>
> Bring it on eh Lawrence, line them up and well shoot them down.
Heck it's
> just a turkey shoot. The US have lost another three thousand
while the
> Terrorists (notice the capitalisation) have lost maybe two
hundred thousand,
> maybe three hundred thousand. Those are the kind of odds we
like. (How did
> they ever fit so many in those caves).
>
>
>
> That's just about approaching the worth of one American life. A
life of
> freedom, a life without tyranny, without threat of violent
crime, without
> persecution, without drugs, without guns, without prisons, a
life of plenty,
> of fairness and equality. In fact a life so worthwhile that it
should be
> exported. What an idea, why don't we just go out and remove all
those
> inferior types and put in their place something more
respectable, something
> with a degree of freedom; why don't we just go out and create
some room...
>
>
>
> Bet nobody's thought of that before.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>
> From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>  Helm
>
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:35 PM
>
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot
>
>
>
> Simon,
>
>
>
> I posted that publicly.  What difference did it make to me
since I've not
> gotten an intelligent response from a Leftist in eons - if
ever.  Note how
> silly you are.  Note that I observed that Leftists quickly
attack us for
> wanting to defend our country.  They attack us if we want to
defeat our
> enemies.  Notice that I said they never enter into a serious
logical
> discussion and when one of us proposes a serious discussion or
advances a
> serious argument all the Leftists can manage in response is a
series of
> insults.  I said you didn't seem to have the ability to reason
or debate
> logically.  So what do you do to refute that?  You insult me -- 
once again
> proving my point - if it needed any more proving which it
doesn't.
>
>
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Simon Ward
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 2:01 AM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot
>
>
>
> No doubt Lawrence's private message to Eric was sent to the
list by mistake.
>
>
>
>
> We weren't supposed to see the deliberate misapplication of
logic and the
> deliberate maligning of those on the list who criticised Eric's
approach to
> fighting terrorism or likened Eric's language to that used by
Neo Nazis.
> Somehow, though clearly we weren't meant to see it, we have all
become 'the
> enemy' through a literary manouvre that is no doubt taught in
the 'Schools
> of the Right' (disguised as regular viewing on FOX News) in
which it is
> thought wise to try and ferment a civil war in addition to the
many wars
> being fought on foreign soil.
>
>
>
> I can almost smell the friction burns as Lawrence rubs his
hands together.
>
>
>
> Simon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>
> From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>  Helm
>
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:01 AM
>
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot
>
>
>
> Eric:
>
>
>
> Notice how quickly any expressions hostile to Militant Islam,
Terrorism or
> any variation thereof are quickly turned back on the writer.
Condemn
> terrorists and someone is going to condemn you in short order.
You'll be a
> wild man, a fascist, just as bad as the terrorist or some
combination
> thereof.  The fact that Leftists can't resist doing that, can't
resist
> attacking those interested in defending this country, is far
more
> interesting (and potentially alarming - until we realize they
are but a
> minority in the US - if not in Europe) than anything pertaining
to the
> actual defense. A majority in this nation will insist that this
country be
> defended, but we here on Lit-Ideas are a backwater in which
hostile
> intelligences snap and bite at those who believe in fighting
against our
> enemies.  How do you account for that?  I for one never get
used to it.
> What they say strikes me as being similar to someone who does
something
> really dumb and then does it again and then again.  They draw
attention to
> themselves.  You are shocked and then amazed.  You try to help
them, but
> they don't want any help and they go off and do it again, and
again, and
> again.  It is like a blind spot or insanity.  One of them wants
to turn our
> founding fathers into a group of terrorists --  I suppose such
a
> transformation is intended to make the present terrorists more
palatable to
> those of us who oppose them.  What sort of intelligence would
assert
> something so loony?  It is amazing.  She wasn't affected by the
fact that
> the concept didn't exist until it was applied to the French
during their
> revolution which occurred after ours.  Her head was up and
locked and the
> throttles were fully forward.  I don't think she even noticed
what I said.
>
>
>
> Now you have been called a Nazi, you who live near the World
Trade Center
> and witnessed the work of the Terrorists are now considered a
Nazi for
> wishing them ill.  Why do these Leftists so quickly attack
those who oppose
> our enemies?  Why do they in effect come to the defense of our
enemies?  Are
> we experiencing a pandemic of self-destructive behavior?  Might
we become
> infected as well?  Might we one day wake up and hate America
and wish to
> become a Terrorist's toady?  And what is most alarming, we have
ample
> evidence that the disease is incurable.
>
>
>
> But then the next question to ask is why we, who have yet to be
infected,
> spend so much time inviting their dumb comments again, and
again, and still
> again.  Perhaps this is a form of symbiosis.  If we could get
them to go to
> an Alcoholics Anonymous for Leftists, perhaps we should seek
out an Allanon.
>
>
>
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Eric Yost
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:22 PM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot
>
>
>
> Joerg: ... over here, someone with your "world-view" would
>
> easily qualify as a neo-Nazi, and be banned from public
>
> life: that's not a "clash of cultures", it's just drawing
>
> the line between civilisation and barbarianism.
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric: I let this pass too easily, so redux.
>
>
>
> Let me get this straight: in modern Germany, if someone
>
> advocated killing active terrorists, they would qualify as
>
> neo-Nazis and be banned from public life? That can't be
>
> right, can it? If that's what you really meant, it's almost
>
> too weird and fascist for a reply ... almost.
>
>
>
> If that's the case, you Germans are totally [insert
>
> Anglicism for traditional expletive] bonked. Might as well
>
> just lubricate yourself and bend over for any and all
>
> militant killer scum who threaten you. That's so sad. A
>
> whimpering end. Being someone's jailhouse punk in the name
>
> of civilization. Es ist wirklich traurig.
>
>
>
> If I misconstrued what you wrote, and it seems certain I
>
> misconstrued, you should correct me. What, exactly, in your
>
> opinion, qualifies as neo-Nazi about my world view? Or are
>
> you the Hammer seeing me as a Nagel?
>
>
>
>
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