[lit-ideas] Re: Kamikaze versus 9/11 Terrorists

> [Original Message]
> From: Robert Paul <robert.paul@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 3/28/2006 10:52:15 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Kamikaze versus 9/11 Terrorists
>
> Irene wrote:
>
> > Shame is a serious topic of study in the psychological community.  It's
> > known as the "master emotion".  It's much more than pop-sociology
jargon. 
>
> Here are two psychologists' enlightening remarks about shame.
>
> http://www.mundanebehavior.org/issues/v1n3/scheff-retzinger.htm
>
> "This article outlines a social psychology of the basic emotions in 
> social relationships. In our theory, shame and pride are the emotional 
> building blocks of interpersonal relations. But because there is so 
> little empirical evidence about pride, we focus mainly on shame. First 
> we review Mead, Cooley and Goffman?s concepts of the self, showing how 
> they imply the centrality of shame and pride. We define shame as a class 
> name for a large family of emotions which includes not only 
> embarrassment and humiliation, but also "discretionary" shame, such as 
> modesty, shyness, and conscience. The common thread in these variants is 
> seeing self negatively in the eyes of the other(s), and therefore 
> perceiving a threat to the bond. To illustrate this idea, we apply it to 
> a single episode, a phone call between two friends. We present this 
> episode in the form of a dialogue with the reader, to help overcome the 
> counter-intuitive nature of our framework. We ask the reader to employ 
> not only analysis, but also introspection. Finally, we propose that 
> shame is the central affect in social relationships, a way of making 
> them visible."
>
> Note that, as it turns out, shame is said to be 'a class name,' for a 
> number of other emotions, attitudes, and states, which are conceptually 
> different from it. 


I don't see the problem.  All emotions are classed:  under anger one might
find annoyance, irritation aggravation; under sadness one might find grief,
etc.  Shame goes by different names too.  I would, however, say shyness is
really fear.  



Notice too that the authors give equal place to 
> 'pride' but claim, despite the attention given to pride in Western 
> thought from Aristotle on down, that nobody's studied pride. This, they 
> seem to believe, allows them to say that 'shame' is _the_ 'master 
> emotion.' (Their title is 'Shame is the Master Emotion of Everyday 
> Life.') As shame is a class name, it is no more specific than the term 
> 'animal,' and does about as much work as 'animal' does in 'The earth is 
> inhabited by animals.'
>


I think you misunderstand.  Shame literally (not figuratively, but
literally) binds up the other emotions.  It happens instantaneously so it's
virtually unconscious.  Someone experiences something that makes them feel,
say, sad, but after decades of conditioning, the sadness (or anger,
whatever), will be instantaneously stifled.  The more one emotes, the more
the shame goes down.



> > Body shame is more than not liking one's body.  Body shame is taking the
> > feeling of being fundamentally defective (really the definition of
shame)
> > and applying it to one's body.  Therefore, someone like Marilyn Monroe
> > could very easily have body shame.  Many beautiful women think
themselves
> > ugly, the way anorexics think they're fat.
>
> This discussion began with a superficial and anecdotal investigation of 
> cultural differences concerning displaying (or decorating, Eric 
> suggested) one's body. It is hard to see what anorexia has to to do with 
> this.
>

Anorexia was an effort to illustrate how wrong one can be.  Many people
with beautiful faces and bodies (male or female) think themselves ugly,
fat, etc.  If you wanted to keep to the subject of adornment, then yes, it
was off the subject of adornment, but it is definitely tied in to shame. 
It's unclear what drives anorexia, though.  Control is a big one.  (But
what drives control?)  Anorexia is also affecting children as young as
seven.



> > Shame starts very early in life, predating guilt.  Also, shame isn't a
> > problem.  Small amounts of shame are what conscience is based on. 
Healthy
> > people must have it.  Sociopaths have no shame.  "Toxic shame" is the
> > problem.  Toxic shame starts with the very young child's (guilt is
formed
> > by the age of 2, so this is earlier than that but I don't remember
exactly)
> > blaming himself for mom not coming to his rescue when he cries, etc. 
It's
> > what children do, it's all they know how to do, blame themselves for
> > everything bad.
>
> Here you leap on your favorite hobby horse and begin to rock furiously. 
> I've heard your views on the depravity of human life and the origins of 
> that depravity. We've had this discussion before.
>

When was the last time we talked about shame?  Are you of the school that
says things just are, God made it that way, don't question?  Why do you so
object to finding a reason for universal behavior?  



> > Toxic shame sounds like it should be psychobabble but it's a real
thing.  I
> > think it was Alice Miller who coined "poisonous pedagogy".  That's
based in
> > toxic shame.  It's the parenting style credited with creating Nazis. 
> > People think money is the root of all evil. Toxic shame is the root of
all
> > evil; pharma's price gouging, war, etc.  
>
> 'Toxic shame' is psychobabble, as are most of the headings in the 
> Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, where 
> 'distinctions' between 'disorders' are continually being refined to the 
> point of absurdity. If you suck your thumb, you're suffering from 
> pollexitis. (At least.) When Koch's Postulates are used in psychology, 
> I'll reconsider my views.
>

I would agree with you, but not for that reason.  I think the disorders in
the DSM are like pasta, the same dough in different shapes.  The bottom
line of most disorders (cocaine babies and the like excepted) is inadequate
and inappropriate nurturing, which is to say, repressed emotions,
disconnection, isolation, and shame.  Whether that takes the form of
histrionic behavior, narcissistic personality disorder, borderline or
whatever, ultimately it's all variations on a theme: instead of nurturing
the kid, they shame the kid (or give too much attention).  Looking for love
in all the wrong places.




> Robert Paul
> Professor of Mundane Behaviour
> Mutton College
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html



------------------------------------------------------------------
To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html

Other related posts: