[lit-ideas] Re: Kamikaze versus 9/11 Terrorists

In the links you posted, 'body shame' (a piece of pop-sociology jargon) seemed to refer to a dissatisfaction with one's body (one is too fat, too flat-chested, too wrinkled). Such dissatisfaction has little to do with 'modesty.' The Ancient Greeks were cited as having little 'body shame,' because youths lounged and exercised naked in the gymnasia; but this says nothing about 'body shame' in the first sense. Here you seem to equate, curiously, 'body shame' with lack of adornment; yet here the Greeks would seem to be very close to the Amish (and other sects); they dressed plainly and uniformly. Are you saying that in the gymnasia they lacked 'body shame' and in the Agora they displayed it? This seems a bit confused. 'Shame,' 'prudishness,' and 'modesty,' are not just different names for the same concept: one may think one has an absolutely splendid body, yet choose not to display it in public, just as one may not be concerned with whether one's body comes close to some ideal, for one thinks that nudity, nakedness, and/or any concern with such things is somehow sinful.

Robert Paul
(until MG returns, the Atlas of the list)

Eric wrote:

How are the Amish an example of body shame?

The "plain people" avoid all kinds of adornment. Like the Muslims, they have strict rules for clothing and dress. "Body shame" is more an outsider's term. Adherents to these views tend to refer to "modesty." 

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