[lit-ideas] K a techinical pointRe: Re: Valid-Some Thoughts

I am midly puzzled. would you mind just explaining (or else provide
sources) fro your claim that "even Chomsky concurs" (finally etc.)
to what are you making reference?
thank you

palma a

On Wed,
26 Dec 2007 wokshevs@xxxxxx wrote:

> Turkey and nog may well instill (and even distill) the idea that dictionaries
> are of some philosophical worth, but one would hope that a restful night's
> sleep would succeed in disabusing one of that idea.
>
> Clearly, no discipline or paradigm of disciplinary research owns the copyright
> to the concept of validity. Each sense possesses its own disciplinary-specific
> criteria of "validity." I submit, however, that the logical sense of validity
> can legitimately be said to be foundational, i.e. possess priority over
> "procedural" senses, in that all other versions of the concept cited by John
> are governed by the specifically logical norms of validity for the
> intelligibility and cogency of claims made. The converse cannot validly be
> maintained.
>
> Regarding the quotation from W: I'm not clear on the points John McC wishes to
> extract from these remarks and how they are relevant to the claims he makes.
> Rules are public and social. (Even Chomsky now concurs, finally.) Typically, 
> we
> each know when we're (not) abiding by a rule and when others are (are not). If
> this were false, then the issuance of traffic tickets would be seriously
> imperilled. W. understood that, surely. (What is the specific view that W is
> addressing in this passage?)
>
> Walter O.
> Duck "Orawnge" Heaven
> St. John's, NL
>
>
> Quoting John McCreery <john.mccreery@xxxxxxxxx>:
>
> > A Google search for "define: Valid" yields the following result.
> > -----
> >
> > Definitions of *valid* on the Web:
> >
> >    - well grounded in logic or truth or having legal force; "a valid
> >    inference"; "a valid argument"; "a valid contract"; "a valid license"
> >    - still legally acceptable; "the license is still valid"
> >
> >
> wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=0&oi=define&q=http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%3Fs%3Dvalid&usg=AFQjCNG8JbP6yppNRxqupqXtkvVmOpzUSw>
> >
> >    - In logic, the form of an argument is valid precisely if it cannot
> >    lead from true premises to a false conclusion. An argument is said to be
> >    valid if, in every model in which all premises are true, the conclusion
> > is
> >    true. ...
> >    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valid
> >
> >
> <http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=2&oi=define&q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valid&usg=AFQjCNE4N8cW_r3wrOtnL6DYuOx079Lbrg>
> >
> >    - Legally binding; authorized.
> >
> >
> www.titlecorockies.com/dictionary_v.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=3&oi=define&q=http://www.titlecorockies.com/dictionary_v.htm&usg=AFQjCNE8kGs0VeC3KBMHhYpqacOw2dWkrg>
> >
> >    - Time at which the weather data was received. In the case of a
> >    forecast, time at which the forecast applies.
> >    www.intellicast.com/Help/Glossary.aspx
> >
> >
> <http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=4&oi=define&q=http://www.intellicast.com/Help/Glossary.aspx&usg=AFQjCNFiQOkTb_xRqJ3dVgJw4FOKlfP1rw>
> >
> >    - Of taxonomic names and epithets: Published in accordance with
> >    several articles of the Code of Nomenclature; such names may be
> > legitimate
> >    or illegitimate. (22)
> >
> >
> www.plantpath.cornell.edu/glossary/Defs_V.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=5&oi=define&q=http://www.plantpath.cornell.edu/glossary/Defs_V.htm&usg=AFQjCNHAHPhk5RT_lWFVKpBk57eF1fJ5fw>
> >
> >    - Certificate of Insurance valid
> >
> >
> apps01.metrokc.gov/www6/ddes/scripts/perminfo.cfm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=6&oi=define&q=http://apps01.metrokc.gov/www6/ddes/scripts/perminfo.cfm%3Frpt%3D2&usg=AFQjCNFAmZyqNC3hkOZT5SuFikbuU-Xy4w>
> >
> >    - An XML document that is verified correct against a DTD or schema.
> >    Create a Valid XML Document valid glossary entry
> >
> >
> webdesign.about.com/library/weekly/aa070102a.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=7&oi=define&q=http://webdesign.about.com/library/weekly/aa070102a.htm&usg=AFQjCNFDBjCV2_z4O6aEgF9q55lrYPPOGA>
> >
> >    - Based on proper procedures, a valid approach will lead to the
> >    correct solution of a problem.
> >    www.numbernut.com/glossary/v.shtml
> >
> >
> <http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=8&oi=define&q=http://www.numbernut.com/glossary/v.shtml&usg=AFQjCNH9HyMzcd4PUzbi_A6Iw13OEBdBkw>
> >
> >    - Produces or relates to the intended results or goal.
> >
> >
> www.nmlites.org/standards/language/glossary.html<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=9&oi=define&q=http://www.nmlites.org/standards/language/glossary.html&usg=AFQjCNE2C2f3Pr2FsYJ3v20egWX4JcU6mQ>
> >
> >    - A valid proof (or statement) is one in which all the arguments
> >    leading up to it are correct within the logie of the system being used.
> >
> >
> ddi.cs.uni-potsdam.de/Lehre/TuringLectures/MathNotions.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=10&oi=define&q=http://ddi.cs.uni-potsdam.de/Lehre/TuringLectures/MathNotions.htm&usg=AFQjCNHWjiIO7orUx2dwslUXjU4ffXy3rw>
> >
> >    - Being complete, accurate and reasonable 113 .
> >
> >
> www.usq.edu.au/planstats/Docs/GlossaryTerms.doc<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=11&oi=define&q=http://www.usq.edu.au/planstats/Docs/GlossaryTerms.doc&usg=AFQjCNE_ig2MsQGrSmCWxrjD13-TXyNCLQ>
> >
> >    - a condition that is legally sufficient; that will be upheld by the
> >    courts.
> >    www.tdsf.com/foregloss.htm
> >
> >
> <http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=12&oi=define&q=http://www.tdsf.com/foregloss.htm&usg=AFQjCNHdodCyHbo8gtlBIzms_p2AUauWMg>
> >
> >    - Having legal force. This means that if a property title is valid
> >    then it is effective or binding by law.
> >
> >
> www.canequity.com/mortgage-resources/<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=13&oi=define&q=http://www.canequity.com/mortgage-resources/%3Fv%2BD&usg=AFQjCNHtaal2MCvsOwdvIyr8Fb9p8xkESA>
> >
> >    - Term of appraisal applying to arguments. An argument is valid if the
> >    truth of the premise(s) really does warrant us in asserting the truth of
> > the
> >    conclusion. ...
> >
> >
> www.abdn.ac.uk/philosophy/guide/glossary.shtml<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=14&oi=define&q=http://www.abdn.ac.uk/philosophy/guide/glossary.shtml&usg=AFQjCNF2bAusgvclwAzzKl4qYx-Fwl0Yhg>
> >
> >    - "valid" means issued in accordance with the applicable law or
> >    validated under section 97.
> >
> >
> www.canlii.org/ca/sta/b-1.01/sec81.html<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=15&oi=define&q=http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/b-1.01/sec81.html&usg=AFQjCNFhXLUy5ik2dhyz1sAarbvyMtMLfA>
> >
> >    - Research is valid if it represents the world as it really is.
> >
> >
> www.barrycomp.com/bhs/guide/key_terms.html<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=16&oi=define&q=http://www.barrycomp.com/bhs/guide/key_terms.html&usg=AFQjCNFgY-9dtvNerRjFj7FJjP_jW8emuQ>
> >
> >    - A binding situation that is authorized and enforceable by law.
> >
> >
> centapoint.com/Support/Glossary_Pages/V_Page.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=17&oi=define&q=http://centapoint.com/Support/Glossary_Pages/V_Page.htm&usg=AFQjCNEq933DTbGYRa25WEQBAcGlAHVLQQ>
> >
> >    - The Quotation is valid for 30 days only.
> >
> >
> www.a1-plating.co.uk/index_files/Page707.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=18&oi=define&q=http://www.a1-plating.co.uk/index_files/Page707.htm&usg=AFQjCNHG5X9QW2b6OqUTLN1NHOpZ_iFpvw>
> >
> >    - Having force or binding force; legally sufficient and authorized by
> >    law.
> >
> >
> www.realestatemanitoba.com/glossary.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=19&oi=define&q=http://www.realestatemanitoba.com/glossary.htm&usg=AFQjCNGgmaKOHsawbP7gEFbDgzh8qMjaRg>
> >
> >    - In logic, the term used to indicate that the conclusion follows
> >    deductively and necessarily from the propositions of an argument,
> > although
> >    the conclusion may not be true. A property of arguments: being such that
> > the
> >    truth of the premises guarantees or necessitates the truth of the
> >    conclusion.
> >
> >
> www.rodsmith.org.uk/philosophy%20glossary/philosophy%20glossaryU-Z.htm<http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=20&oi=define&q=http://www.rodsmith.org.uk/philosophy%2520glossary/philosophy%2520glossaryU-Z.htm&usg=AFQjCNFV6NJ44mKuRK_2sQQpEa3CCBP-uA>
> >
> > -----------------
> > As Robert Paul points out logic provides an exceptionally clear and definite
> > description of validity, which appears in both the third and the last of the
> > definitions to which Google points us.
> >
> > One can, of course, simply assert that the logical definition of validity is
> > the only one that counts and, going further, regard this definition of
> > validity as an absolute dividing line between logic and the illogical. This
> > is, for example, the force as I read them of   palma's remarks in re
> > Bourdieu.
> >
> > Alternatively, we might begin by observing that the majority of these
> > definitions evoke the notion that validity is, in essence, a procedural
> > issue. There exists a procedure P, governed by a set of rules {r1, r2....},
> > such that for a given set of initial conditions {c1, c2....}, there is some
> > outcome that satisfies the rules in question. The use of the procedure may
> > then be described as valid. This model applies equally to logic and to the
> > other  legal and scientific usages mentioned in our list.
> >
> > So long as we speak hypothetically, we evade, however, the problems that
> > confront interpretations or explanations in terms of rules in particular
> > (concrete? empirical?) situations--the problems identified by Wittgenstein
> > in the following passage from _Philosophical Investigations_ cited by
> > Bourdieu in _The Logic of Practice_:
> >
> > "What do I call 'the rule by which he proceeds'??The hypothesis that
> > satisfactorily describes his use of words, which we observe; or the rule
> > which he looks up when he uses signs; or the one which he gives us in reply
> > when we ask what his rule is? --But if observation does not enable us to see
> > any clear rule, and the question brings none to light?--For he did indeed
> > give me a definition when I asked him what he understood by 'N', but he was
> > prepared to withdraw and alter it. So how am I to determine the rule
> > according to which he is playing? He does not know it himself. -- Or, to ask
> > a better question: What meaning is the expression 'the rule by which he
> > proceeds' supposed to have left to it here?"
> >
> > If we can neither infer the rules from our own observations or trust what we
> > are told are the rules, what do we do then?
> >
> > John (pleasantly muddled by turkey and nog as Christmas Day moves toward
> > midnight in Japan)
> >
> >
> > --
> > John McCreery
> > The Word Works, Ltd., Yokohama, JAPAN
> > Tel. +81-45-314-9324
> > http://www.wordworks.jp/
> >
>
>
>
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