One last comment: Have you ever considered how logically spurious it is to appeal to degrees of difference and then paint the parent-child spanking encounter has having (you seem so absolutely sure) only one possible meaning? Have you ever considered the possibility that when the child says, "I am a jerk, that's why they are hitting me" that the only correction needed is "I'm behaving like a jerk, that's why they're hitting me," a valuable learning experience. Obession with an idee-fixe is not, IMHO, rhetorically very effective. John McCreery The Word Works, Ltd. 55-13-202 Miyagaya, Nishi-ku Yokohama 220-0006, JAPAN ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html