----- Original Message ----- From: To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 8/5/2005 2:34:32 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Inner Moral :Law and, Andy, go talk to the www.kabbalah.com people about your questions on how a god can allow the Holocaust, etc. It really hard for me NOT to respond to your questions, but I'd probably give to you ALL the different ways that people have answered that question throughout time (I was in two bookstores yesterday and saw scores of books dealing with just that question--and those are simply the books in print...not the ones in either public/academic/special libraries) A.A. I'm not looking for answers on how God or a god can allow the Holocaust and other evil. I know the answer to that, which is that there is no God. I was looking for an answer as to how religious people explain it and still stay religious. The fact that it takes scores of books might say that it needs some heavy duty explaining. My born again relative will give me his version of it. He's just like everybody else. There's no point in trying to convert me, Marlena. I'm one of the few people who prefers reality to fantasy. I notice you say you're out of the business for now. Presumably that means you will be returning one day. I imagine being hooked on religion is like any addiction, there's always the danger of relapse. Regarding having respect for different faiths, I'm polite about different faiths, but I can't respect fantasy that passes itself off as reality and causes so much trouble in the bargain. Andy Amago I do think you need to know that there are LOTS of answers and thoughts on your questions...(not to simplify the answers by sending you to them as they are quite a bit different from the born-again/fundamentalists or even the standard religious types who lurk on Our List but who have [I'm sure for various reasons] not wanted to venture into conversations of this sort... I also know that your relative who recently became 'born again' could assuredly answer your questions--I used to have all the answers in that vein of thought and if you would like to subscribe to that vein, I hate to disappoint you...but I'm out of that business for now. (Though at one point, anyone who was asking those sorts of questions was considered on the edge of salvation...a bit like the lead guy in the group Kansas who was in the process of conversion as they performed Dust in the Wind...) But, really. That was a different life when I engaged in walking through people and introducing them to a particular point of view. If you really do not want to spend the time and energy on this on your own--well, then, sure, I don't mind going deep again ... but you'll have to be patient. There is a healing going on and it is still occurring. I cannot deny that, like you, issues of time, space, faith, etc. are in triguing to me--and in my belief system, important as arenas of my People Watching ... and that my "watching" leads me to desiring to match people to where they need to go for their information. I will, though, assure you that there are and have been MANY who have and are examining the questions that you have proposed... Personally, I spend more of my intense personal growth on learning the 'how' people walk through horrific, miserable or personal anguish--speaking of the Holocaust, I highly recommend Viktor Frankl's book(s) which set up the theory of 'logo-therapy'--basically suggesting that as we walk through rough spots that there are (in his mindset) three ways to assist people--he examines his time in a concentration camp in a way that is somewhat different than many others have done... I'd rather you look at lots of other traditions/theories of thought besides just the so-called "Christian" viewpoint of having faith. There are MANY. (and the guys at kabbalah.com will be glad to chat <G> and their spirituality for kids folk were great assistance in helping me to work through the issues of this whole messianic jewish thing that my child is dealing with right now...as have been many others...) I'm still in Houston and respecting all faiths and paths and questions. If anyone is looking for a lighter read, I will suggest To Say Nothing of the Dogs--deals with time travel, has fun Oxford professor[s] in it from Times Past, and more...Great for escapism but intriguing in terms of what happens if someone brings someone forward in Time... Best to all, Marlena from Missouri -----Original Message----- From: Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 23:02:59 -0400 Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Inner Moral :Law I guess that's how the religious do it. Deny, deny, deny, look at the good ... I didn't realize Paul was talking about not stealing wallets during tsunamis and Holocausts and the like. Are you a Holocaust denier by any chance? BTW, Marlena, the only reason I shut my garage doors is because I don't want bears and other animals wandering in.