[lit-ideas] Re: In the Name of Efficiency [was: Punitive Expeditions, Helm's World, Psychotic Expeditions, Pasifistic Expeditons, Experience War, Who are you calling crazy?, Honor: A History, etc.]

  • From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 16:49:53 -0700

There you go.  Good note, David.  Yeah there are differences.  As to the
pathological, I knew some Marines in that category.  Staff Sgt Cook, for
example.  He had been in Carlson's Raiders during WWII and was as mean as
they come.  I mentioned capturing a Korean breaking into our base.  That
occurred on Cheju Island where we had a small Early Warning Station there.
There were only about 30 of us down there and after the truce was signed,
North Koreans were released from nearby Cheju Island Prison.  We were told
to be on watch for them because a number didn't want to go back up north.
We would see fires burning every night up on Cheju Mountain.  I number of
them were hiding up there.

 

One night while I was walking post, I caught a Korean who had broken in.  I
assumed he was a North Korean but when I took him to Staff Sgt Cook he
looked at him and told me he was just a ROK stealing supplies.  He then
began beating him.  I watched for a few moments and then tried to stop him.
He shoved me away and told me that if I messed with him again he would do
the same to me, but he quit after a moment or two and told me to release him
outside the camp.

 

"Release him?"

 

"Yeah.  As an example to the others.  They'll take a look at him and no one
else will break into our camp."

 

Some time later Cook & I got into an argument in town.  He had been
drinking.  He pulled a 45 and put it to my head, but I wasn't going to back
down. Some buddies pulled me away.  They looked in Cook's eyes and thought
he was very close to pulling the trigger.  

 

Lawrence

 

  _____  

From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of David Ritchie
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 4:27 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: In the Name of Efficiency [was: Punitive
Expeditions, Helm's World, Psychotic Expeditions, Pasifistic Expeditons,
Experience War, Who are you calling crazy?, Honor: A History, etc.] 

 


On May 9, 2006, at 3:13 PM, Judith Evans wrote:

>Why do we waste our precious time typing messages?  Why not just fill in
the subject and sign your >name


 


and do that 3 times a day max :)


 

 


I don't read the claims quite the way others do. Lawrence says, in effect,
that military people develop sub-cultures that exclude outsiders and make
the insiders feel different from those outsiders. I'm sure that John
McCreery and those of you who know, for example, Marshall's study of the
Pacific theater, will agree with this claim. That is indeed how military
people behave. That is the essential point of boot camp, to develop small
group cohesion, a sense that only your buddies are truly trustworthy.

Judy says that there are sub-cultures within these sub-cultures and that
S.A.S. officers would distance themselves from Andy McNab, who was an SAS
private or NCO (I forget which). An S.A.S. officer told me the very same
thing. He thought McNab was beyond the pale, had broken a sacred trust. 

Lawrence says that members of elite fighting forces have things in common.
This is, of course, because they select for particular characteristics. It's
also true that there are distinctions among the various groups, and that
members of these units like to emphasize the distinctions.

I have known members of all of the U.S. armed forces except the Seals. I
know people in the British forces and some who have served with German and
French forces. I have a very limited understanding of Israeli fighters. The
only loon among all of these was an ex-Legionnaire, who was quite
pathalogical. I'm sure there's a small percentage in all armed forces.

David Ritchie,
Portland, Oregon

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