[lit-ideas] Re: Hitler Meets A Christmas Story
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:32:17 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Geary
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 12/28/2005 12:32:21 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Hitler Meets A Christmas Story
AA:
>> It's strange how the sense of German superiority survived even after the
>> Russians beat the Germans, singlehandedly without help from the Allies. <<
M.G. The sense of "German superiority" as sensed by whom?
AA: Me. I used to fill up my car at a gas station owned by a (German born)
German-American (a long time ago). The owner made no bones about the
inferiority of the Russians, even as he tried to pick me up. I can't remember
now how we got on the subject. I might have asked him about his accent. It
was too much information from a gas station owner so I stopped going there. At
any rate, the point is, Hitler's intentions weren't only against the Jews.
They were also against all Slavic people, Gypsies, and all those he thought
unfit which is pretty much everyone. He fully intended to enslave the peoples
of Eastern Europe under the rule of the Germans. Sounds mad now, but it was
quite rational at the time. Maybe you can tell me about an uproar against this
sentiment in Germany. Hitler actually despised his own people once it was
clear that the war was lost. They were weak; they deserved to die. These are
his words.
M.G. I've not seen any evidence that Germans believe themselves superior to
others in my lifetime.
AA. I guess if you get your butt kicked it could have a way of toning things
down. But not for gas station owners.
M.G. I have no idea how wide-spread the acceptance of Nazi racial superiority
was among the German people during the 20's, 30's and 40's. Certainly a
purulent anti-Semitism was widespread throughout all of Europe and, to a lesser
degree, North America. But racism against blacks in America more than
compensated for our lack-luster anti-Semitism. There were, still are, many
ethnic divides in Europe that surprise most Americans: Croats and Serbs, Slavs
and Germans, Turks and Armenians, Kurds and everybody, etc., etc., etc.
"Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch and I don't like
anybody very much" as the Kingston Trio used to sing.
AA. Well, there was enough to fuel WWII. The rest of it sounds like we're in
agreement. People simply hate people. Nearly all people, nearly all the time.
Irish need not apply, etc.
M.G. quoting AA >> Social Darwinism [what drove Hitler] essentially underlies
the creation of Israel, the same sense that all countries (or peoples) had when
they colonized and/or usurped or usurp territory. <<
M.G. Do you really think so?
AA. Yup.
M.G. I'd say the need to have a place where you could be a Jew and not be
hated for that was at the heart of the Zionism.
AA. No doubt. But Israel was conceived before WWII. Before WWI in fact. It
was essentially a 19th century idea, take somebody's land for yourself. Think
it would work today?
M.G. The creation of Israel was an international decision, btw, an act of the
United Nations and it was probably driven more out of enormous guilt than a
feeling of superiority.
AA. And/or politics. I don't know that people who order the dropping of
atomic bombs are overrun with remorse or guilt.
M.G. That we, the international community, took the land from Palestinians for
the state of Israel is an issure, I agree, but where would America be if we
started taking ethics seriously?
AA. My point exactly.
M.G. In other words, it seems a hell of a lot more complicated and sticky than
you let on.
AA. Complicated, of course, because people are generally heartless. If
people felt each other's pain, otherwise known as empathy, no one would be
beaten, lynched, burned at the stake, whatever. But they are, historically in
massive numbers. If nothing else, it's illegal or at least unethical to beat a
wife. But to beat a child is called spanking and discipline. It's a parent's
right.
M.G. Nevertheless, justice should be striven for, Palestinians should be
compensated for their losses.
AA. Sure got me on how to do that.
>> The British did it with colonies, as did the French and the Spanish and
>> Portuguese before them. <<
M.G. Was this Social Darwinism or just garden variety greed, avarice, escape
from boredom, institutional power seeking? "Social Darwinism" is a construct
of schoolmen and mams, it's not real. Greed is real. Nor would I classify as
Social Darwinism the incident from the movie A Christmas Story. I'd call it
rage. Pure, unbridled rage. And it's a scary thing.
AA Social Darwinism is premised on the strong surviving. I think an appeal to
that level of baseness is the same thing as predicating one's behavior on rage
and greed. The greedy are strong. Social Darwinism is alive and well. Pharma
among others is based on it.
M.G. Despite the fact that humankind is subject to greed and avarice and power
seeking and is often quite willing to use horrendous violence to effect those
ends, I have to disagree with you that empathy is rare. If it were so, life
would be impossible given all our negative proclivities. We have come a long
way, baby. The achievements of mankind are astounding -- and the fact that we
sometimes feel despair at our evils only shows how much further we can go and
are going to go. Empathy is not rare. It's the bread and butter of
civilization.
AA. Empathy is the bread and butter of civilizations? To Pollyanna maybe.
People think war is glorious, necessary etc. and they make up excuse after
excuse to indulge in it. War involves blood, pain, death, horror. Where is
there empathy in that? You talk about achievements. How many achievements
have we missed out on because of the all the people who were killed in man-made
mass and other types of murder. Napoleon is considered a great general. Ever
think he might be a mass murderer? Probably, like everybody, Napoleon is
synonymous with greatness for you. Every once in a great while, yes, great
while, there's some empathy, but even in A Christmas Story one kid beats
another bloody, and people, meaning the audience (this movie is wildly popular)
as well as the kids in the story, think it's a hoot. Yes, empathy.
Andy
Thus sayeth Memphis.
Mike Geary
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Amago
To: lit-ideas
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:43 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Hitler Meets A Christmas Story
I wrote this for another purpose. I thought I'd post it here too. Some is
repeat, some isn't.
It's strange how the sense of German superiority survived even after the
Russians beat the Germans, singlehandedly without help from the Allies. It
always strikes me that people who don't like themselves are the most bigoted.
It's called the hot potato syndrome, throwing one's negative feelings onto
others because they're too uncomfortable to hold on to. Social Darwinism [what
drove Hitler] essentially underlies the creation of Israel, the same sense that
all countries (or peoples) had when they colonized and/or usurped or usurp
territory. The British did it with colonies, as did the French and the Spanish
and Portuguese before them. In fact, I saw a smidgen of that on an individual
level even in the movie A Christmas Story (the one with the father who wins a
lamp in the shape of a leg; Jean Shepherd's book). In it Ralphie becomes so
frustrated at a series of losses that he starts beating up a bully. To be
sure, a bu lly can only be stopped with force (that's all they
understand), but he keeps pummeling and pummeling. The kids standing around,
instead of seeing the pain of the boy being beaten, are awed and urge Ralphie
to beat harder. Interestingly, it's the girls who urge the hardest. Empathy
is a rare commodity among humans, virtually nonexistent.
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