[lit-ideas] Re: Global warming claims tropical island
- From: Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 22:34:17 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
2006 was low in hurricanes because of an El Nino. GW is associated with more severe droughts and floods and hurricanes. Snow storms, I don't know. Tsunamis have nothing to do with the weather. The weather will keep going even as the climate changes, but the overall trend is definitely in one direction. There are no scientists who dispute it.
Also, there definitely are pictures of glaciers then and now. Not only glaciers, but scientists use "snow rings" in snow cores. They can look at a snow ring and tell you where on the ring the Clean Air Act was passed, the rings have that much information. The troubling thing is that they're finding that historically changes have been sudden, in under a decade, even in as little as three years. And truly, once the conveyor belt stops, it will be like turning off the heat under a pot of boiling water, it won't take long to cool down.
As far as the ice shelf in Antarctica, the prediction of 100 years and the reality of 35 days is so disparate as to make irrelevant all issues of prediction. What it proves is that this thing is galloping, not creeping. As far as moving inland, nah. I'm really more curious than anything else, and vindicated in my opinions of the human race, how utterly willfully unconscious they are about this, and the really sad part, they don't want to know.
Also, you're wrong about Al Gore. He's been spreading the word about this since graduate school. He's been mocked mercilessly and the book he wrote probably cost him the election. In the movie there's a shot, a couple of times I think, of him walking down a dark backstage alley, alone. Obviously it's symbolic of how alone he is in this, and he is. He said he gave the lecture 1,000 and then made the movie. He makes the point that some people (the oil industry) will make a lot of money, but where will they spend it if the planet dies? I guess it's hard to believe that some people are not driven by money. I told you, I came away from the movie thinking that Al Gore is one of the few truly good people in the world.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Stone
Sent: Dec 28, 2006 11:40 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Global warming claims tropical island
On 12/28/06, Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
People care about themselves, that's all, and here we are, pretending nothing is happening. If on this erudite list there is so much resistance, what hope is there anywhere else?
No one is pretending 'nothing is happening'... we're arguing about what that thing is. I'm not resisting the prospect of climate change. But... that's what climate does -- it changes. The saddest fact about Al Gore is that he secretly HOPES that GW is happening as he describes it so he can say "I Told you So!" He's like a 'generous' person who screams "look how much I just contributed!" at the top of his lungs. He invented the Internet and he also did a bunch of other things, which he talks about in his movie. All his "good friends" and him do good work. [sarcasm on]
Like I said yesterday, we need to be less hysterical about this. Let's say I grant you that the last 100 years of industrialized living has contributed to climate changes, what do you say we do about 'controlling' the pollution output of developing nations? Would our hegemony be legitimate if we told [by force] China to stop bilging CO2 into the atmosphere at record rates? How about we endeavour to combat the REAL problem -- overpopulation? How can we actually do that without implementing seriously controversial social engineering or eugenics?
So the US hit 300 million and Canada hit 30 million recently... other than most of Europe and parts of Asia, they (TROTW) have BILLIONS (with a B) of people spewing pollution at 1950s [industrially developing nation] levels. What exactly are we to do about it? Do you have a plan Andy? Kyoto is economically disastrous. Are we supposed to ruin our collective societies to stem something that may or may not be 'catastrophic'? and can 16% of the world's population cutting down (something we have already done incredibly) their pollution have any effect on the other 84%?
The "solution" is bigger than a few people buying hybrid cars and people becoming vegetarians. But, what, clearly stated exactly IS the problem? There is no consensus about what that is. "We" think we know that CO2 emissions cause generally warmer temperatures in some places on the Earth. But look what is blamed on "Global Warming". If it snows, it's a hurricane, no hurricanes, tides go up, water goes down, islands are made, islands are swamped, current stops, current cools, current heats up, it's all an effect of "Global Warming". Even an idiot knows you can't have it both ways. When the same 'reputable' sources blame a harsh winter AND a mild winter on the same thing, most people yell "BULL SHIT!" Is this year's completely harmless hurricane season an 'anomaly' now?
People misuse the term "greenhouse effect" and make nonsensical lingo up like "Global Warming" and "Greenhouse gasses" without understanding that starting with incorrect, misleading terms and hysterical reporting of phantom 'effects' is crying wolf. The reason that a lot of people are ignoring this kind of thing is that the people who report it don't seem to understand what the fuck they are talking about. They just report stuff that is happening. There's no real science behind showing a glacier from 50 years ago and then showing its former zone, now free of ice. That's just an anecdote. I hear you say, well the opposite evidence hardly exists. Unfortunately, there are no pictures of before (no glacier) and after (glacier) because why would anyone take a picture of a place that there WASN'T a glacier?
You report "an ice sheet that was supposed to take 100 years to melt, did so in 35 days." AND?... Who said it was supposed to melt in 100 years? And who, when the weather man can't even reliably tell me whether I can get a tee-off time for two days from now, can tell me with a straight face how they know the weather patterns for the next century?
If as you say, we are late in the day, then put on your galoshes and start moving inland. There's nothing you can do about it.
I'm so not worried, that we're having a baby. It will inherit GW? Hopefully, they'll have a better description for it by the time it can read the news.
paul
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