--- Begin Message ---
- From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 02:40:01 EST
Yeah. What Mike said.
Julie Krueger
too tired to form words; glad Mike did.
========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Deep Poverty at
Record Levels, Where's That? Date: 2/25/2007 1:21:06 P.M. Central Standard
Time From: _atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) To:
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on:
LH:
>>The "gulf between rich and poor in the United States" is baloney....I
>>retired on plenty. I have a nice 2200 square foot, two-story house, a
>>large study, a view of the mountains out my study window, and everything
>>else I need.<<
Exactly. I've got mine. Everything's fine.
>>Consider that the American poverty level is higher than the GDP per person
>>of 100 of the 229 World nations....<<
Boy, I'll bet those people in those 100 nations wish they were starving in
America instead.
>> Would you prefer a full-up welfare state? <<
For the last time: YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>but the immigrants available are mostly Muslims who as a group have an
>>alarming set of problems and may not like the idea of paying for a lot of
>>old European's benefits. Whoops.<<
Well, at least they're not loud (see last paragraph).
>>Also we have the best economy in the world. <<
Hmmm. I'm not sure what "best economy" means. Probably the GDP by
Lawrence's measure of things. In that case the US is ranked #1 by the IMF,
World Bank and the CIA World Fact Book. But if the EU is taken as a nation,
then they rank #1 by the IMF and World Bank.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
But as Lawrence says wealth and poverty, who cares? And I agree. What
matters is what kind of life will a particular society provide the average
citizen given it's economy and social institutions? By that standard
Norway, Iceland, Australia, Ireland, Sweden, Canada and Japan all come in
ahead of the US according to the Human Development Index which "is a
comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, and standard of
living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring
well-being, especially child welfare. It is used to determine and indicate
whether a country is a developed, developing, or underdeveloped country and
also to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life."
According to the HDI, the US has never been #1 in the 26 years it's been
used to compare nations. Oh well, maybe next year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
>>I drove through a Jack in the Box near me a while back and the guy taking
>>my money said hello and it turns out he was one of the people who comes in
>>every week to clean my house. I didn't have time to chat because there
>>was someone behind me who was probably hungry, but this guy, an Hispanic,
>>was obviously working two jobs. He was probably doing poorly by American
>>standards, but doing pretty well in terms of the nation he came from or he
>>wouldn't be here. <<
I'm not going to tell you how furious this "observation" makes me, because
you would never understand in a thousand years -- or unless you end up
living hand to mouth some day. How insufferably smug and superior it all
strikes me. But I know you have no clue how I could get that from what you
wrote, so I won't comment on it. But yes, I agree, he's probably doing a
lot better financially working two menial jobs in the US than none at home.
>>And there are plenty of perks for poor people in this country - for
>>example medical care....But during that process we are in the midst of a
>>large number of Hispanic people who can't speak English. Many of them
>>look healthy. If an immigrant has no medical insurance and has any
>>medical problem whatsoever, he can show up at an ER and will not be turned
>>away even if he can't pay.<<
Well, thank God. I'm so relieved to learn that America is not completely,
wholly and totally mercenary. Even if they can't speak English and even if
they are in the midst about us, still we're good and generous enough to keep
THEM alive if time permits. Since we're anecdoting, I was in an Emergency
Room at the Med in Memphis a few years back and while I waited for word on
the person I had brought there, a man who had been waiting for treatment
even before we had got there (I remember seeing him and thinking he doesn't
look so good) died in his chair in the waiting room from a heart attack.
That's why he had come in, by the way. That he was dead wasn't discovered
until after I had left. I read about it in the paper the next day. I don't
know how they discovered he was dead. Serves him right though. Next time
I'll bet the dumbass will have insurance.
>>How much of the growth of the severely poor is made up of immigrants?
>>The Hispanic immigrants we are familiar with don't stay poor. One of
>>Susan's best friends is a second generation immigrant - a Republican by
>>the way - who has a degree in Microbiology and is working on one in
>>Psychology. Her mother never learned to speak English. One of her
>>Uncles, a big well-built guy about 6' 3" is a sergeant or lieutenant in
>>one of the police forces in Southern California.<<
I do love the details you choose to reveal, Lawrence -- they're very
revealing.
>>In short, we have nothing to complain about here in the U.S. as a people
>>if we compare ourselves to the rest of the world.<<
I don't compare the US to the rest of the world, they have their own
problems. I compare us to what our society could be given our resources to
what we've become. We have a high mountain still to climb.
>> For example, I have some Hispanic neighbors who live kitty-corner to my
>> back fence. I've never met them, but their house is like mine; which is
>> the most expensive model in our development; so presumably they are well
>> above the poverty level, but that isn't my complaint. What I don't like
>> are their parties. They have them about one or two Saturday Evenings a
>> month. They seem to feel that a party isn't a real party unless they
>> have some device they can turn up to full volume.<<
See now? Wouldn't you prefer a nice, non-drinking Islamist family quietly
praying for your destruction to those loud, life-loving uppity Mexicans
living catty-corner [Southern version] to you? Or would you rather have
some Scots? Call Ritchie. He'll half bury a boat in his front yard. What
will the neighbors do then?
Relax, Lawrence. The U.S. is still a long way from Socialism. Your
properties are still safe and sacrosanct for now.
Mike Geary
Memphis
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