[lit-ideas] Re: Five Years Ago
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:10:10 -0700
Our Left isn't support Islamism in Iraq. It is supporting the Islamist
position here in this country in the Media, universities, etc. They are
undermining our will to persevere in a difficult situation in the Middle
East. Islamism doesn't equal Shiism; so I don't know what you mean.
Vali Nasr, purported to be the greatest authority on political Islam said
(several days ago on CSPAN2) regarding Iraq that the Sunni insurgents hoped
by being as disruptive as possible to convince the US to leave and the
current government that it couldn't succeed. Initially the Shiites took
these attacks without responding. But eventually the Shia militias decided
enough was enough and have been striking at the Sunnis to show them that
they cannot succeed in what they planned. Nasr didn't say that the Sunnis
would now automatically all come to the table. In fact he thought we
should attempt to bring pressure to bear on them from Saudi Arabia. But
Iran and Syria would need to be part of that as well. The situation could
develop into a Civil War but we aren't there yet. He says the Shias look to
Iran for protection. The Sunnis look to Saudi Arabia and the Kurds look to
us. But all this can be pulled together if we use an approach like we used
in Afghanistan.
I don't know what you mean by an Islamicist government. The government is
still technically democratic, part Shia, part Sunni and part Kurd.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andreas Ramos
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:44 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Five Years Ago
Lawrence Helm said, in its entirety, the following:
> No, I don't believe the Left wants to eliminate Liberal Democracy and
> install Islamism. What I do believe is that by supporting Islamism and
> opposing the US they are in effect pursuing just that.
But Lawrence, the neocons are doing precisely that: they are supporting
Islamism (their
allies in Iraq are the Shiite) and they installed an Islamicist government
(namely, the
Shiites).
Now you'll tell me that if Leftists do this, they're destroying democracy,
but if the
rightwing does this, they create democracy and establish peace.
Peace? What peace? Look, three months ago, a US military study found that
60% of the deaths
in Iraq were done by the Shiites. Namely, our side. Not the al-Qaedians nor
the Sunni
rebels. Our side.
But that was three months ago. The situation has changed.
But not for the better. Now, most of the killing is between Shiite factions.
"Our side" is
fighting among itself over the spoils.
The Sunni rebels and the al-Qaeders aren't even relevant anymore. When Bush
says we have to
stay in Iraq, it's to... what? Support the Shiites who are doing most of the
killing? How
will the US Army create peace by arming the very ones who are killiing?
You have zero position in the war anymore. You have zero idea of what is
going on there. You
have no sense of accountability.
You can't bring yourself to admit that you were wrong and the war was a
disaster.
yrs,
andreas
www.andreas.com
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